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Old 25th January 2016, 03:46 PM   #21
randytsuch is offline randytsuch
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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At one time I used a macbook and a dell laptop. I've also used Daphile and a lot of other programs. To get going, Daphile is a great program, an easy way to get started in pc audio, especially if you've used the old logitech squeezeserver software.

I also played a little with linux, but I'm not a linux guy, and to me, it was too much trouble, so I went with server 2012 and AO.

The problem with laptops is that you really can't tweak them, where if you go with a standard PC motherboard, there is a lot you can do.

But, there is stuff I haven't tried, and I'll admit I'm on the lunatic fringe here, but there are guys that have done more than me too.

I have not tried replacing clocks or supplying ram power (bypassing the dc - dc converter on the mb that generate the ram voltage) to name a few.

Randy
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Old 25th January 2016, 04:09 PM   #22
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Did you try IanCanada or Acko front end ? Seems noone can hear a difference of streamer with their front end as far they are bit perfect... and all are.

My understanding is as far as you didn't isolate the noise and greatly reduce it with good supply of the front end then reclock and buffer the signal with FIFO, différences can be heard !

No servers even the famous japoneese one BHE can replace such front end for sound quality ! If there are, I should be happy to know it if abx tested !

Could be fun if Daphile was compatible with the remote of the Duet Squeezebox Duet : miss me a lot
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Old 25th January 2016, 04:39 PM   #23
randytsuch is offline randytsuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldam View Post
Did you try IanCanada or Acko front end ? Seems noone can hear a difference of streamer with their front end as far they are bit perfect... and all are.

My understanding is as far as you didn't isolate the noise and greatly reduce it with good supply of the front end then reclock and buffer the signal with FIFO, différences can be heard !

No servers even the famous japoneese one BHE can replace such front end for sound quality ! If there are, I should be happy to know it if abx tested !

Could be fun if Daphile was compatible with the remote of the Duet Squeezebox Duet : miss me a lot
I'm using the Soekris dac which has an isolator, and with the design of that dac, I don't think the ian fifo will make a difference.

And I'm not here to debate whether others can hear a difference, I'm just telling the op what I did. I'm not going to argue the merits of what I did. IMHO, people should try things for themselves, and they can decide if it's worthwhile.

Randy
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Old 25th January 2016, 05:00 PM   #24
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Dear Randy,

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing of what you rudly say in the questions I asked to you. Indeed you are free to do what you want, I'm not judging you, etc !

In fact half of my inputs were to inform the op about streaming and sounding, maybe I would had to writte @OP in the middle of my post ! Sorry my bad !

Well, your answer is your hear a difference with the Fifo of the Soekris DAC with different streamer ! I believe it's an interresting testimonial both for us and for the OP.

I disagree people have NOT all time and money to try all, but it's not because I disagree I'm against you or what you are saying. The sense of the OP is to have a return of experience. That's what we did
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Old 25th January 2016, 07:26 PM   #25
randytsuch is offline randytsuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldam View Post
Dear Randy,

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing of what you rudly say in the questions I asked to you. Indeed you are free to do what you want, I'm not judging you, etc !

In fact half of my inputs were to inform the op about streaming and sounding, maybe I would had to writte @OP in the middle of my post ! Sorry my bad !

Well, your answer is your hear a difference with the Fifo of the Soekris DAC with different streamer ! I believe it's an interresting testimonial both for us and for the OP.

I disagree people have NOT all time and money to try all, but it's not because I disagree I'm against you or what you are saying. The sense of the OP is to have a return of experience. That's what we did
Sorry Eldam, my bad.

I've seen too many "bits are bits" type of posts, and too many posts about the lack of abx, or about flawed abx testing.

While I understand why, it's always up to the "tweakers" to prove their changes make a difference. No one asks the "other side" to prove it can NOT make a difference.

And for full disclosure, I made most of my PC tweaks when I was using a dacend dac
version 1 of this dac

And version 1 did not have isolation, which may be significant.

The problem is at this time, it would be too much work to disconnect my linear supply to compare it to something else.

Randy
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Old 25th January 2016, 09:06 PM   #26
ttan98 is offline ttan98  Australia
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Hi,

The 8" or 10" windows based tablet are now quite cheap and even cheaper 2nd hand or refurbished.
I bought a Lenovo 8" Miix Window 8.1(upgraded to Win 10) running in fanless operation(most of the time in battery mode)) with software JRiver(V20.0) and Fedelizer(V6.1) running, the result excellent sound quality.
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Old 25th January 2016, 09:53 PM   #27
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randytsuch View Post
Sorry Eldam, my bad.

I've seen too many "bits are bits" type of posts, and too many posts about the lack of abx, or about flawed abx testing.

While I understand why, it's always up to the "tweakers" to prove their changes make a difference. No one asks the "other side" to prove it can NOT make a difference.

And for full disclosure, I made most of my PC tweaks when I was using a dacend dac
version 1 of this dac

And version 1 did not have isolation, which may be significant.

The problem is at this time, it would be too much work to disconnect my linear supply to compare it to something else.

Randy
I agree, plus my English is difficult to understand as well with a cruel lack of subtility, grammar and even vocabulary (so thanks to read it )...

I believe in fact we advise the same to the OP ! He has a full scale fro the simpliest to the best refinments.

I used to have the Soekris as well but was to difficult to me to wait the excellent work you all made with it ! Soekris is equally Lucky to have you all even if the board was cheap.

Your advises are always welcome and readed by me

cheers
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Old 27th January 2016, 12:08 PM   #28
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Want to build a music server
Bits are bits though, this is how digital signal transmission works... and all that encompasses getting a digital signal from a to b is understood, it is called signal integrity, people like Howaqrd Johnson, Eric Bogatin and lee Richley (to name a few) have written books on it, books that I have read because my job involves designing boards etc. that ensure the bits go from a to b correctly. Noise and noise control is another issue, again Henry Ott, Ralph Morrison Keith Armstrong are the people to look for here.
There are two sides to the digital coin, signal integrity and EMC (noise) and a thorough understanding of these issues and the gear to measure both and the resultant effect on digital signals is the way to go.
With any claim it is always up to the claimant to provide the data to back up the claim, again that's how it works.

I use a bog standard PC with an AMD processor that I got a few years ago as my music server, it runs Squeezebox server and the data is picked up by squeezeboxes and a couple of adapted tablets throughout the house... so I have full isolation from any noise in the PC, the PC just runs the SB server nothing else and the SBs and Tablets pick up the data and feed the various systems in the house. I am looking to change my basic systems down stream of the SBs at some point whether I use some DACs I did a layout for (The JP one Eldam, if you remember) or something else I don't know yet. I would like to build an all in one unit so that every room can benefit as I need to down size everything.... Main system is Valve mono blocks with 8" full range and tweeter and 2X15" per side for the woofers, doesn't fit in my current house very well.
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Old 27th January 2016, 12:12 PM   #29
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Want to build a music server
Now I would like to build a proper music server with a decently designed main board, say 12 layer plus done with on board isolation etc of USB outputs etc using Picor and Vicor power options... That's where you want to look if you want to cut noise down, linear does not do that much....
Simeltaneous switching noise is one of the main culprits in PCs and you cant cure that unless you turn the thing off.
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Old 27th January 2016, 03:32 PM   #30
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Hello Marce,

Of course I remember, I even succeed to attach uf-l connectors on the front end vias (ah my bad I talk about the Painkiller one and you the Jean-Paul one) . The genuine chips from Rochester costed me a lot... (Painkiller DAC).

So you talked about in fact of your JP adaptation you had no time to finish IMHO because some limitation of the ES9023, you may give up (I talked bout the embeded current to voltage converson) : better to beginn from scratch like the good one Painkiller made with some external resistor for I/V conversion : here you should try yourself to believe it (with ears) the difference between a resistor : Rohpoint wirewound for Aerospace, Sussumu smd, old AllenBradley carbon comp, good normal metal Vishays : full of Learning, but I assume more EMC than in a chip? !

Sure: which is good with nano pc à la Pi is you have not this switching PS noise ! It's simple to feed it with a battery, because here we are sure to no inject noise : the modern LiPo or LiPoFe4 are good for that !

As you say us, simple dyers have not for most of us both the knowledge and the costly Equipment to hunt EMC...

I will be be defintly in as beta tester if you want to make Something here as a little server (have some ideas on the functions, of course not the electronic, either the layout where you excell)

Have to tell for having also tried all the front end of IanCanada that THIS IS SOMETHING ! Very good !

In such projects there are two sides : the soft and the hardware ! I like non commercial softs but they are a mess up if you are not a Linux guy : for instance : you want to have room eq and phase correction in the digital domain : you have to load in an existent distro some soft à la BruteFir; open pipe, etc..(look at my question to Tim Curtis about Brute Fir and RePhase : it will ask him a lot of time to embeded it with a nice GUI in his good Moode distro ! Not easy.... )

Et vive le Camembert Electrique !

PS : Marce if having a TDA1541A chip, you SHOULD go to Audial, there is few boards of AYA 2 2014 DS edition (cheap price thanks to Pedja Rogic's gift to DIY communauty)! It is my benchmark for listen to audio music with the Ian's Front end.... clock & EMC is the POINT (and powersupply type!); Andrea Mori is working as well on a good OCXO with a sota phase noise ! I use myself 957 XO from Crystek...

Sorry folks for the OT....

Last edited by Eldam; 27th January 2016 at 04:00 PM.
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