Non Standard USB cables.
First, a very enthusiastic review.
ClearView Cables From inSound/Mapleshade by Srajan Ebaen
Followed by some having EMI related problems. THere are even more reports via Google.
Any ideas why my Clearlink USB cable isn't working with my MBP and DAC?
First, a very enthusiastic review.
ClearView Cables From inSound/Mapleshade by Srajan Ebaen
Followed by some having EMI related problems. THere are even more reports via Google.
Any ideas why my Clearlink USB cable isn't working with my MBP and DAC?
These Clearview cables are ludicrous , that USB cable is the worse design I have ever seen, is it 90omh differential impedance for D+/D-, no, is it shielded no, is it an Audiofools wet dream cable, yes. The description on this page are truly out of this world, total un engineered crap, it is disgusting that this stuff can be peddled by these fraudsters, of course the designer did hush hush stuff for the Navy, like sweep the decks!!!!!
Clearlink USB Cable with PLUS Upgrade - 3 Length-Mapleshade
Clearlink USB Cable with PLUS Upgrade - 3 Length-Mapleshade
I'm not an expert by any means but when i bought an old analog scope and connected it to the +5v and - from a usb cable i found a lot of noise. This led to a lot of experimentation with splitting the power and data lines to my ODAC with a linear regulator based power supply. The audible (yes subjective) difference was compelling. But what i was seeing on the scope was a little more black and white. In the case of the ODAC its powered by the USB supply so getting that as clean as possible was my mission.
What i ended up was a simple USB isolator board and linear regulator. Note the scope trace showing the linear regulator (top) vs the USB supply from the PC (bottom). I believe the difference in noise does matter, but i dont see how any $500 USB cable could have made any difference to that?
Its also worth pointing out the - rail, and the outer casing/shield of the USB cable are not the same thing, but they can both can introduce noise in their own way. In my final setup the - rail of the linear regulator is tied to mains earth (chassis) to eliminate any potential voltage difference between the PC and DAC (even though they are isolated). And the outer shielding is connected to the isolator board on each side however they do not appear to be directly connected to each other, certainly there is no continuity on a DMM so perhaps they are coupled through a resistor or cap on the PCB, i really dont know. Either way i opted to disconnect the outer shield from the isolator casing on the output side as it greatly reduced the noise traveling down the cable to the DAC, but curiously i found the outer shielding (plug body) isn't actually connected to anything electrically on the ODAC PCB. I'm a little unsure on what is the best way to configure the shielding, can anybody clarify?
As for cable quality/construction, i really liked the Belkin USB2 cable as it has x2 28AWG data lines, x2 20AWG copper power lines, a foil shield with drain wire, and a copper outer braiding. How does a $500 cable improve on that?
What i ended up was a simple USB isolator board and linear regulator. Note the scope trace showing the linear regulator (top) vs the USB supply from the PC (bottom). I believe the difference in noise does matter, but i dont see how any $500 USB cable could have made any difference to that?
Its also worth pointing out the - rail, and the outer casing/shield of the USB cable are not the same thing, but they can both can introduce noise in their own way. In my final setup the - rail of the linear regulator is tied to mains earth (chassis) to eliminate any potential voltage difference between the PC and DAC (even though they are isolated). And the outer shielding is connected to the isolator board on each side however they do not appear to be directly connected to each other, certainly there is no continuity on a DMM so perhaps they are coupled through a resistor or cap on the PCB, i really dont know. Either way i opted to disconnect the outer shield from the isolator casing on the output side as it greatly reduced the noise traveling down the cable to the DAC, but curiously i found the outer shielding (plug body) isn't actually connected to anything electrically on the ODAC PCB. I'm a little unsure on what is the best way to configure the shielding, can anybody clarify?
As for cable quality/construction, i really liked the Belkin USB2 cable as it has x2 28AWG data lines, x2 20AWG copper power lines, a foil shield with drain wire, and a copper outer braiding. How does a $500 cable improve on that?
Attachments
So, in your esteemed view, the noisy +5v transmitted within the USB cable has nothing to do with USB cable sonics, right?
There are ways of solving the noise problem, USB is digital and surprise surprise can handle the noise.
As I said earlier, you need to know the spectrum of the noise, where it is coming from and solve the problem. Either by galvanic isolation, breaking the power and supplying a clean supply (make your own USB hub for audio with a cleaner supply). Use ferrites on the power lines, if you don't want the 5V, remove it, filter the noise from the ground line, engineer a solution. But magic wires wont solve it on their own.
Oh and USB cables don't have sonics, that comes further down the line once you have sorted the digital transmission down the cable and transmitted said data to DAC, then you get sonics..
Now I have to go and lay out (funnily enough) including USB, where I have to get a 90ohm differential impedance and match the lines within 1mm
As I said earlier, you need to know the spectrum of the noise, where it is coming from and solve the problem. Either by galvanic isolation, breaking the power and supplying a clean supply (make your own USB hub for audio with a cleaner supply). Use ferrites on the power lines, if you don't want the 5V, remove it, filter the noise from the ground line, engineer a solution. But magic wires wont solve it on their own.
Oh and USB cables don't have sonics, that comes further down the line once you have sorted the digital transmission down the cable and transmitted said data to DAC, then you get sonics..
Now I have to go and lay out (funnily enough) including USB, where I have to get a 90ohm differential impedance and match the lines within 1mm
Such heresy, cheap bell wire, PVC insulation, my god, the smear of the high frequencies that will cause, never mind the grain boundaries, skin effect, proximity to alpha centauri and the phase of the moon when you install the cable. And will the cable have the little arrows to tell me which way to install it!!!
As I said on another USB thread or somewhere, when testing a add on box, we could only manage 200m with bell wire, where we could guarantee the data integrity, so spare a thought for the poor Audiopile DIYer who only has to cope with a 20th of that distance.
next you'll be saying silver cables don't make the sound sound brighter
As I said on another USB thread or somewhere, when testing a add on box, we could only manage 200m with bell wire, where we could guarantee the data integrity, so spare a thought for the poor Audiopile DIYer who only has to cope with a 20th of that distance.
next you'll be saying silver cables don't make the sound sound brighter
When I make any cables I *always* make sure that:Such heresy, cheap bell wire, PVC insulation, my god, the smear of the high frequencies that will cause, never mind the grain boundaries, skin effect, proximity to alpha centauri and the phase of the moon when you install the cable. And will the cable have the little arrows to tell me which way to install it!!!
1) I'm facing north when doing any soldering, for correct magnetic aligning.
2) Only assemble cables when Mercury is *not* in retrograde.
Hope this helps...
Easier said than done on an old analog scope with no capture functionality, it was hard enough to take a picture. There was so much random noise it would be near impossible to tie it all down to specific frequencys with the equipment i have.
My point is, i started testing different USB cables from thin cheap unshielded to the Belkin cable, with and without ferrites, different lengths, different routing, none of it made any noticeable difference as the changes were so small vs the level of noise i was looking through. Sure a shielded cable can make a difference, but if you put crap in your going to get crap out, now matter how fancy the cable.
Or to put it another way, the cable wasnt the problem.
Hi ! and sorry i have to confirm
I have the same Dacmagic and yesterday evening i cut the red wire of the +5V usb power
It was late and did not stay long to listen. But it worked without problem
Am i ruining anything ?
Personally i would try to modify a good commercial product
Thanks and regards,
gino
Not in my opinion ginetto,
I have been using the dacmagic in this very same configuration for some time without running into any problems whatsoever.
Of course you will find people with a thorough background in electronics on here who will definitely disagree.
To my ears the device sounds better though
I have been using the dacmagic in this very same configuration for some time without running into any problems whatsoever.
Of course you will find people with a thorough background in electronics on here who will definitely disagree.
To my ears the device sounds better though
Not in my opinion ginetto,
I have been using the dacmagic in this very same configuration for some time without running into any problems whatsoever.
Of course you will find people with a thorough background in electronics on here who will definitely disagree.
To my ears the device sounds better though
Rojo
congratulations for sticking to what you hear. I too make my own usb cable and it is vastly better than the $2 one or the $15 premium version. In my case I just cut the connectors off of a decent usb cable. Then soldered teflon coated 24 guage 6" copper wire (as short as possible). Big boost in SQ. i challenge anyone to come over to my place and change cables and I not tell you every time which is which.
Total investment 15 mins.
Hello ! i think you have done a great work !
I would be extremely grateful if you could post a schematic or a simple block diagram. Very interesting device really.
Actually it is exactly what i am looking for.
When i see usb dac relying only on usb power i wonder how they can even work.
This dirty 5V are used even for generating the clock, while one of the most popular mods in the cd players was a specific extremely low noise power supply for the clock circuit.
It is a surprise that some sound comes out.
I think this device would deserve a dedicated 3D. It is a fundamental issue with usb dac.
Right ! a power cable does not fix issues in the power supply. I think but i am not an expert that digital circuits (clock and dac) are more sensitive than analog circuits to this kind of noise.
Clearly it cannot. When a cable is well designed and built with good connectors is just fine, like this Belkin.
Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,
gino
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Not in my opinion ginetto,
I have been using the dacmagic in this very same configuration for some time without running into any problems whatsoever.
Of course you will find people with a thorough background in electronics on here who will definitely disagree.
To my ears the device sounds better though
Thank you very much indeed
Now i am more relaxed.
The cable i cut it is extremely low quality. I am trying to find a decent one.
I do not have the galvanic separation but at least i isolate those dirty 5Volts in the usb from my precious little dac
I would just add that all the good dacs should work with the 5V wire in the usb wire disconnected. If not some electrical pollution can enter the dac.
The problem of connected grounds between pc and dac still is in place, by the way.
One way could be to use a usb to toslink converter, but the quality of toslink connection is subject of debate.
Moreover i am using the balanced outs from the dac and maybe this helps.
Thank you very much again
Kind regards,
gino
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