Hey,
So I need some help with a dilemma at work.
Essentially I work in a school and we have an internet Radio Setup installed which consists of a basic Mixing Desk with;
A rack style, 2-disc cd player on the first two channels,
2 Mic inputs,
And four other faders ( Red, Blue, Green and Yellow ) which matched some software installed on the PC ( which was provided by the company who installed all the gear ).
Essentially, whatever song you load into the green cart on the PC-radio software, plays out through the green fader on the desk. Pretty straight forward.
However, the PC has gone bang hard drive / mobo smoked ( cover has ran out on all the equipment ) and now we need to work out a new solution to get the radio back up and running.
I'm thinking, do I replace the PC and hook it up to the current mixing desk until it decides to die aswell, or do I setup a new system from the ground up.
Being more of a music producer / Club DJ person, a lot of this multichannel soundcard stuff evades me. I have a USB mixing desk at home for my vocal recordings and input / output recording to PC, however when it comes to multi-track soundcards, I would like some help with what I need.
I'm aware I need a new computer with some sort of multi-output Soundcard that lets you have four carts with music loaded, essentially just like a radio station. But i'm kinda lost with which type to buy and will it work in the way I want it to.
I'm pretty sure the current card that was used was connected via Parallel port? I may be wrong but it looked like it. Does this sound about right.
Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
So I need some help with a dilemma at work.
Essentially I work in a school and we have an internet Radio Setup installed which consists of a basic Mixing Desk with;
A rack style, 2-disc cd player on the first two channels,
2 Mic inputs,
And four other faders ( Red, Blue, Green and Yellow ) which matched some software installed on the PC ( which was provided by the company who installed all the gear ).
Essentially, whatever song you load into the green cart on the PC-radio software, plays out through the green fader on the desk. Pretty straight forward.
However, the PC has gone bang hard drive / mobo smoked ( cover has ran out on all the equipment ) and now we need to work out a new solution to get the radio back up and running.
I'm thinking, do I replace the PC and hook it up to the current mixing desk until it decides to die aswell, or do I setup a new system from the ground up.
Being more of a music producer / Club DJ person, a lot of this multichannel soundcard stuff evades me. I have a USB mixing desk at home for my vocal recordings and input / output recording to PC, however when it comes to multi-track soundcards, I would like some help with what I need.
I'm aware I need a new computer with some sort of multi-output Soundcard that lets you have four carts with music loaded, essentially just like a radio station. But i'm kinda lost with which type to buy and will it work in the way I want it to.
I'm pretty sure the current card that was used was connected via Parallel port? I may be wrong but it looked like it. Does this sound about right.
Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
Find out what is in there at the moment, the card might be fine.
It will not be a parallel port (except possibly for fader start inputs), but might be something like a delta 1010 which uses a D type connector to a breakout box (A very, very common card for low end radio).
Lots of delta1010 out there at the low end as well, which tend to do fine.
Depending on budget and what the cart wall software is, the AudioSciences boards are very common in radio installations, for all that at the cheap end a USB7.1 card can get you 4 stereo outputs (unbalanced line however).
A big part of the deciding factor will be what you are running as a playout system, as not all of them will work with all sound cards, and you sometimes encounter things like that system Clyde brodacast was selling a few years back where actually all the work is done in the PC, totally unlike a conventional broadcast setup.
You need to figure out what you are going to be running software wise first, as you probably do not want to have to re-import thousands of hours of audio to a new system, let alone deal with setting segue markers and dayparting rules for everything all over again.
I am guessing that the mixer is probably an airmate or similar, which are fine and are easily replaced if it eventually dies, as it is you just have a dead automation playout computer, no big deal and easy to sort (For all that the licensing for the automation suite MAY be the most expensive bit to sort out, depends on the vendor).
If you are looking at replacing the automation system software (Think carefully this is a big commitment), and have someone around with Linux knowhow, Rivendell Rivendell Project Home Page is solid and is a free download (It also knows how to import from the libraries of quite a few other systems so you avoid having to re enter all the metadata).
HTH.
Regards, Dan.
It will not be a parallel port (except possibly for fader start inputs), but might be something like a delta 1010 which uses a D type connector to a breakout box (A very, very common card for low end radio).
Lots of delta1010 out there at the low end as well, which tend to do fine.
Depending on budget and what the cart wall software is, the AudioSciences boards are very common in radio installations, for all that at the cheap end a USB7.1 card can get you 4 stereo outputs (unbalanced line however).
A big part of the deciding factor will be what you are running as a playout system, as not all of them will work with all sound cards, and you sometimes encounter things like that system Clyde brodacast was selling a few years back where actually all the work is done in the PC, totally unlike a conventional broadcast setup.
You need to figure out what you are going to be running software wise first, as you probably do not want to have to re-import thousands of hours of audio to a new system, let alone deal with setting segue markers and dayparting rules for everything all over again.
I am guessing that the mixer is probably an airmate or similar, which are fine and are easily replaced if it eventually dies, as it is you just have a dead automation playout computer, no big deal and easy to sort (For all that the licensing for the automation suite MAY be the most expensive bit to sort out, depends on the vendor).
If you are looking at replacing the automation system software (Think carefully this is a big commitment), and have someone around with Linux knowhow, Rivendell Rivendell Project Home Page is solid and is a free download (It also knows how to import from the libraries of quite a few other systems so you avoid having to re enter all the metadata).
HTH.
Regards, Dan.
Thanks Dan. Essentially the gear was from a company called psquared and the software was provided by them, it's designed to work with the desk.... Well, the Whole solution was in place by this company even the pc which basically caught fire.
It's basically down to me to come up with a radio solution. I know replacing the desk could be a big job so im going to evaluate it all carefully before I do anything.
The hard drives are smoked anyway so I'm going to have to re do the jingles. Nothing was backed up because its the only pc in the school not on our network.
It's basically down to me to come up with a radio solution. I know replacing the desk could be a big job so im going to evaluate it all carefully before I do anything.
The hard drives are smoked anyway so I'm going to have to re do the jingles. Nothing was backed up because its the only pc in the school not on our network.
I Suppose I have the option of getting a new pc and just replacing the unit and hope p2 give us the software again. Then link it back up with the desk. Or do a new solution.
It definitely is a d type connector I just looked. If p2 give me the cart software would you, in this position, just replace the pc unit and re build it?
It definitely is a d type connector I just looked. If p2 give me the cart software would you, in this position, just replace the pc unit and re build it?
Sorry I also should have added the pc was a windows 7 machine with p2 software running. It's like a four, coloured music system nout too complicated. I did notice windows like, detects 1/2, then a 3/4 then a 5/6 and a 7/8 if I remember right. Suggesting windows detects the multiple output capabilities of the card.
Either way, I think tomorrow I'm going to get a pc from my office and test the sound card in the smoked machine.
Either way, I think tomorrow I'm going to get a pc from my office and test the sound card in the smoked machine.
Myriad I assume?
Assuming you have one of their studio packages (seems likely) probably at a guess with their SRM mixer (which, good news) will interface with just about any standard kit, so no immediate need to replace it even if you go for something else, and assuming you can still sort out the myriad license details there is probably no real reason you cannot just replace the PC (Put a backup strategy in place this time for both the audio and the database files).
You should have the software license keys for myriad somewhere, they are the sort of things school administrators tend to hang onto as it is not a cheap package.
Regards, Dan (Ex Broadcast automation engineer).
Assuming you have one of their studio packages (seems likely) probably at a guess with their SRM mixer (which, good news) will interface with just about any standard kit, so no immediate need to replace it even if you go for something else, and assuming you can still sort out the myriad license details there is probably no real reason you cannot just replace the PC (Put a backup strategy in place this time for both the audio and the database files).
You should have the software license keys for myriad somewhere, they are the sort of things school administrators tend to hang onto as it is not a cheap package.
Regards, Dan (Ex Broadcast automation engineer).
Thanks Dan. Yes Myriad, that's right. The desk is only two or three years old, even though it is a bit battered. Kids don't appreciate stuff. I would have had it all backed up if it was up to me but all of it was installed a few years before I became the media and audio technician so naturally, it's all been out of my hands until now. If anything its a blessing in disguise because the pc is crap anyway and full of junk. Will be a worthwhile refresh to install myriad on a clean build.
So assuming the card is shagged, should I just get a delta 10/10 and connect it up, re install myriad and bobs your uncle ?
So assuming the card is shagged, should I just get a delta 10/10 and connect it up, re install myriad and bobs your uncle ?
It usually does not go quite that easily, Windows and drivers are after all involved....
The card probably is not shagged, they are usually pretty robust, now finding a PC with an old school PCI slot.....
Check the Psquared web site for their current hardware reccomendations (I am a few years out of date), and I would strongly suggest that a broadcast automation PC should be solidly locked down, as in nothing installed except that required to handle the core task of running the automation suite.
In particular the kids should not be able to install anything and there should be no web browser, that alone will cut out about 90% of the sillyness.
Broadcast automation is a classic case where the computer should not be viewed as a general purpose machine, far better to have a single purpose box that is only used for this one thing.
Regards, Dan.
The card probably is not shagged, they are usually pretty robust, now finding a PC with an old school PCI slot.....
Check the Psquared web site for their current hardware reccomendations (I am a few years out of date), and I would strongly suggest that a broadcast automation PC should be solidly locked down, as in nothing installed except that required to handle the core task of running the automation suite.
In particular the kids should not be able to install anything and there should be no web browser, that alone will cut out about 90% of the sillyness.
Broadcast automation is a classic case where the computer should not be viewed as a general purpose machine, far better to have a single purpose box that is only used for this one thing.
Regards, Dan.
Exactly what I was going to do Dan. As I say, this was all there way before I got there so I will be making some changes. Having said that the machine was in a sealed cab and as I say, separate from the network. When I said loads of crap on it I meant, unorganized audio files on myriad. It was just messy.
Regarding connecting the new pc, I am aware about the drivers and all the back ground changes, I just meant in general, should it work.
I should be able to get a suitable machine easy from my office , I'm also an I.T techy. we have loads of gear lying about, even if its just to test it.
Thanks for your input so far mate.
Regarding connecting the new pc, I am aware about the drivers and all the back ground changes, I just meant in general, should it work.
I should be able to get a suitable machine easy from my office , I'm also an I.T techy. we have loads of gear lying about, even if its just to test it.
Thanks for your input so far mate.
In addition, I should mention given the fact the pc caught fire, and p squared have said they dont offer any hardware cover of any type for their gear and that basically, were on our own ( which is ridiculous ) as you can imagine going back to p2 for anything at the moment is going to be a tough task. The school are not happy. 2 year old gear setting on fire..... Dangerous. At most we'll try and get the software off them again or find our activation codes, but with regards to giving them any more money, you've got more chance of Birmingham City winning the Championship this season.
Also, I would be concerned about the lack of backups on such important machine. Perhaps the new setup will have this major issue taken care of
Hey Phofman, As I said pal, this is something I personally would have done. But a guy came out, installed all the gear, as far as the Media people at the time were concerned, it was a working radio solution. None of them are I.T minded so wouldn't have even thought of backups - heck, most people don't think about backing up their own stuff until it dies, despite how much we tell them to.
Also, because this is a standalone machine, i.e., not one of ours and permanently logged in with a none AD account, there is no Documents area on the PC that is backed up as part of the daily diff.
It's just one of those unfortunate events that I'm now at the heart of,
happy days.
Last edited:
What I was at first thinking, is instead of having this cart automisation thing. Forget the carts, get a simple standalone 8 or 16 channel USB mixing desk connected to a new PC, plug the existing rack CD player in via 1/4" Jacks and the 2 Mic XLR's in and then have it so that they do most of the work in the PC with regards to making a play list and clicking pause, or stop and next track, do a bit of talking, then hit play again and let it run through their created playlists.
The software would recognise the USB audio device and play the music loaded into a playlist through this (I tested the idea at my house last night using a Peavey PV8 USB) but they would lose the ability to fade in different tunes on different faders. So, although technically you could do it this way, it would be different from what they're used to. The do have some little numarks in the room too and I was thinking they could plug these into one of the inputs on the USB Mixer to record DJ sets.
Again, it would work, but maybe be too much of a change.
The software would recognise the USB audio device and play the music loaded into a playlist through this (I tested the idea at my house last night using a Peavey PV8 USB) but they would lose the ability to fade in different tunes on different faders. So, although technically you could do it this way, it would be different from what they're used to. The do have some little numarks in the room too and I was thinking they could plug these into one of the inputs on the USB Mixer to record DJ sets.
Again, it would work, but maybe be too much of a change.
Last edited:
Hi
My experience with radio has been in community radio for about 17 years on and off. Your station as I understand is a internet streaming radio service.
I would head straight for Linux, playout programs like All Discussions - Guayadeque Music Player are really nice
With regard to computers the Linux Mintbox is excellent.
Main Page - Linux Mint
At this very minute I am broadcasting a 1 watt signal using this very equipment... playing is Anthony Philips Slow Dance - he was the first guitarist with Genesis.
Whilst internet streaming can attract audience worldwide, your broadcast content with the school is a likely candidate for a low powered FM service. Your post does not mention where you are exactly from, but i presume UK, with talk of Birmingham in your post.
This body called Ofcom appear to be the licensing authority for FM broadcasting.
Ofcom | Application forms and Guidance Notes for RSLs
All licensing bodies that I have had experience with give support to Community radio ventures, and one way to get used to this is to ask your existing local station for an hour or two per week to provide a program. Whilst there check out how studios are constructed and try and see the whole set up including UHF links and final transmitters, to see if this is the sort of thing you want to do.
So you could with a microphone small mixing desk a minidisc player/recorder and a Cd player, start providing a program for the local community station. The benefit being you get local coverage. This may become very rewarding for your school and its great to support your local station. Believe me they are always after new programs. In the mean time you could apply for a RSL licence with intention to turn it into a community station, perhaps with some help from the education sector, and as long as your content is different and inclusive it should get approved. In radio its very bad to takeover another station that has worked hard for what it is doing , so always be mindful of stations already on the air.
Cheers / Chris
My experience with radio has been in community radio for about 17 years on and off. Your station as I understand is a internet streaming radio service.
I would head straight for Linux, playout programs like All Discussions - Guayadeque Music Player are really nice
With regard to computers the Linux Mintbox is excellent.
Main Page - Linux Mint
At this very minute I am broadcasting a 1 watt signal using this very equipment... playing is Anthony Philips Slow Dance - he was the first guitarist with Genesis.
Whilst internet streaming can attract audience worldwide, your broadcast content with the school is a likely candidate for a low powered FM service. Your post does not mention where you are exactly from, but i presume UK, with talk of Birmingham in your post.
This body called Ofcom appear to be the licensing authority for FM broadcasting.
Ofcom | Application forms and Guidance Notes for RSLs
All licensing bodies that I have had experience with give support to Community radio ventures, and one way to get used to this is to ask your existing local station for an hour or two per week to provide a program. Whilst there check out how studios are constructed and try and see the whole set up including UHF links and final transmitters, to see if this is the sort of thing you want to do.
So you could with a microphone small mixing desk a minidisc player/recorder and a Cd player, start providing a program for the local community station. The benefit being you get local coverage. This may become very rewarding for your school and its great to support your local station. Believe me they are always after new programs. In the mean time you could apply for a RSL licence with intention to turn it into a community station, perhaps with some help from the education sector, and as long as your content is different and inclusive it should get approved. In radio its very bad to takeover another station that has worked hard for what it is doing , so always be mindful of stations already on the air.
Cheers / Chris
Me and my manager were speaking about this very idea yesterday, it's definitely a great shout. However, at the moment, the onus is on just getting it running and then perhaps in the future, take it all a step forward.
It is internet based as well, usually we have have an internal stream and an external stream.
However I know how to setup a Shoutcast stream, but make it invisible on the Shoutcast website, but available to people who log onto the academy website via a link. This could work I suppose.
Having said all of this.... this is all worst case scenario. We may get a replacement PC as I was discussing on page 1 with Dan, and then just re fit the old sound card and re install Myriad and all drivers.
TBH, I think this is more likely to happen, as it doesn't disrupt what the kids know etc etc., and it will also be the fastest solution to all this.
Aside from my USB mixer idea which is straight forward in theory, setting up a completely new radio mixer solution, automation software and what not sound far more complicated than i first anticipated. I don't use Linux so it's out of my depth so I think it's best to fix whats already in place.
Pc power supplies are notorious crap, and do occasionally let the smoke out, and while I can see P2 not actively supporting 2 year old kit unless you have a contract with them, I would be surprised if they didn't offer at least advice to get you up and running again.
If there was actual fire, as opposed to a large amount of foul smelling smoke (Capacitor let go), I would have to ask when the dust was last cleaned out of that machine? PCs do not normally contain enough fuel load to actually catch fire unless they have been left on for years with no routine servicing.
Broadcast vendors live and die by their after sales service so given you have a valid license I would be shocked to learn that P2 were being silly about the software side.
Broadcast automation software is generally somewhat non trivial to set up, so be prepared to spend a day fiddling with obscure settings to get everything to work.
Where are you based? I still know a few broadcast engineering types around the country and it may be possible to get someone to pop in and give you a hand with setup.
Regards, Dan.
If there was actual fire, as opposed to a large amount of foul smelling smoke (Capacitor let go), I would have to ask when the dust was last cleaned out of that machine? PCs do not normally contain enough fuel load to actually catch fire unless they have been left on for years with no routine servicing.
Broadcast vendors live and die by their after sales service so given you have a valid license I would be shocked to learn that P2 were being silly about the software side.
Broadcast automation software is generally somewhat non trivial to set up, so be prepared to spend a day fiddling with obscure settings to get everything to work.
Where are you based? I still know a few broadcast engineering types around the country and it may be possible to get someone to pop in and give you a hand with setup.
Regards, Dan.
Basically the hard drives and sata cables were melted and black and motherboard was charred. The pc had a huge black smoke patch too on the underside of the case. I actually could barely see any dust what so ever built up on fans and grills it actually looked like a very clean unit. The thing with p2 is they say they don't offer any cover on their hardware, end of, and I quote... " as it's complex gear and so expensive ".
The thought with regards to telling them about this was down to the possibility of them replacing the pc out of courtesy. However unlikely this is... I'm asked by the teachers to come up with more than one idea to resolve. I can't just say replace pc job done, nor can I say lets build it all again. I have to justify my actions.
I think the general consensus is that I'll be replacing the pc with a new unit, luckily the ( what I now know to be ) m audio delta d1010lt card is in working condition, So I'll put that in a new machine and have to build all the settings back up again. I'll see how I get on. Thanks for the offer Dan your input has been very useful.
I'll take it step by step, at least when the machine is re connected to the cables I'll have an idea, software wise, of what I'm up against
The thought with regards to telling them about this was down to the possibility of them replacing the pc out of courtesy. However unlikely this is... I'm asked by the teachers to come up with more than one idea to resolve. I can't just say replace pc job done, nor can I say lets build it all again. I have to justify my actions.
I think the general consensus is that I'll be replacing the pc with a new unit, luckily the ( what I now know to be ) m audio delta d1010lt card is in working condition, So I'll put that in a new machine and have to build all the settings back up again. I'll see how I get on. Thanks for the offer Dan your input has been very useful.
I'll take it step by step, at least when the machine is re connected to the cables I'll have an idea, software wise, of what I'm up against
Also, yes I'll have more than enough time to sort it. They will just leave me to it. Yes this machine has practically been on for 2 years straight, however p2 do claim we could stream 24/7, although they will probably say thats figuratively speaking.
Thanks, yes I will be in touch if the **** hits the fan. We are based in Birmingham mate. Which is where I'm also from.
Thanks, yes I will be in touch if the **** hits the fan. We are based in Birmingham mate. Which is where I'm also from.
Sounds like the power supply **** the bed big time, it happens ocassionally.
24/7 is a quite literal claim, radio stations do it all the time, but they are usually a network of machines (Two studios, so you can take one down for maintainance, possibly a news booth, a couple of production rooms, the programming director will have a machine so he can edit clocks, as will the guys in the 'traffic' (advertising department), there might be a couple of machines set for voice tracking or content intake, you get the idea), 24/7 is not something you pull off with a single machine and no redundancy.
I am somewhat surprised that you stayed up for 2 years straight with a single PC!
I am well north of you, but will be down in that vauge direction for the national radio rally in two weeks if you get into real trouble with it.
Delta 1010s were pretty standard in low end radio station installs for a long time, cheap, balanced and with good drivers, whats not to love.
Regards, Dan.
24/7 is a quite literal claim, radio stations do it all the time, but they are usually a network of machines (Two studios, so you can take one down for maintainance, possibly a news booth, a couple of production rooms, the programming director will have a machine so he can edit clocks, as will the guys in the 'traffic' (advertising department), there might be a couple of machines set for voice tracking or content intake, you get the idea), 24/7 is not something you pull off with a single machine and no redundancy.
I am somewhat surprised that you stayed up for 2 years straight with a single PC!
I am well north of you, but will be down in that vauge direction for the national radio rally in two weeks if you get into real trouble with it.
Delta 1010s were pretty standard in low end radio station installs for a long time, cheap, balanced and with good drivers, whats not to love.
Regards, Dan.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.