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Old 28th March 2013, 09:30 AM   #71
ghiglie is offline ghiglie  Italy
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Very interesting thread - much more constructive than I read elsewhere.
I'm a "mixed OS" audio user, I mean use a headphone setup on my main PC, i7-3770k/SSD and Windows 8 Pro based, while my living room has a cheaper (really cheap, no more than 300€) setup based on a Atom based linux box.
I can't find any better solution to my needs, but I admin I've been an HW technician for years, MCP and now hp/UX admin.
Linux is and hard choice for beginners, but it permit to have great results at very low cost. Windows is fairly easier to setup, but... just the license costs as much an entry level DAC. So, based on budget and how much you can spend on it, you can decide whether to choose.
Dunno if I'm explaining myself...
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Old 30th March 2013, 04:07 PM   #72
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My 2 cents:

OSX and Windows deliver much higher application quality and much better maintained applications.

Linux and Android applications usually lack features and quality in comparision.
Let's not talk about drivers ( ever compared the RME tools: Windows vs. Linux)

You'll also get a pretty good picture about quality, if you compare iOS apps and Android apps if you want to find out about the underlying quality logic.


The weired thing is that even if Android apps are commerical, they still
won't come with the same quality as iOS apps.


By getting commerical, you take responsibility and you'll face fierce competition. That should make things going. Probably the Apple quality management is much better then the Google quality management.

Back to Linux.

Many highly skilled Linux designers start up projects, making it work and then letting it go. At one point the driving force gets missing. Many great projects
are just dying.


The other weakness in Linuxland IMO is that a lot of manpower gets wasted. There're megahours spent on redundant projects instead of getting at least some stuff done right.

Those who contribute pretty professionally continously are usually sponsored by companies. And that also makes a difference in Linuxland

Of course there are still many people around who spent numerous hours
free of charge. That's highly appreciated of course.


Most playback software under Linux is pretty basic - compare those players to e.g. JRiver Media Center.
To me Linux+players would be unacceptable if looking at playback software only.

The other issue IMO is that Linux Audio gets more and more complex - I'd like to mention Pulseaudio. No idea why that is done. To me that's a huge step back - at least the way it's done today.


Linux Audio The Way To Go ?? Hmmh.

I'd say under certain conditions only.

For us hackers it's a paradise. There's nothing comparable.

When it comes to achievable soundquality (with a lot of hacking), it's still the best platform.

Cheers
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Old 30th March 2013, 05:43 PM   #73
JLOP is offline JLOP  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghiglie View Post
Very interesting thread - much more constructive than I read elsewhere.
I'm a "mixed OS" audio user, I mean use a headphone setup on my main PC, i7-3770k/SSD and Windows 8 Pro based, while my living room has a cheaper (really cheap, no more than 300€) setup based on a Atom based linux box.
I can't find any better solution to my needs, but I admin I've been an HW technician for years, MCP and now hp/UX admin.
Linux is and hard choice for beginners, but it permit to have great results at very low cost. Windows is fairly easier to setup, but... just the license costs as much an entry level DAC. So, based on budget and how much you can spend on it, you can decide whether to choose.
Dunno if I'm explaining myself...
Very well, I share your opinion. What is a shame is that there are really no comparison test between both environment, as far As I know. Of course ABX is much more difficult to organize in computer audio than just switching amps or headphones (:-(

I share also many opinions from soundcheck but really do not find Windows more Industrial or stable than my Linux Mpdpup : it has never crashed in 6 months of extensive use while I have to reboot my Windows Laptop everyday. But of course the mpdpup is dedicated to audio and not general purpose. It is just an (cheap) appliance and I like it. All rip, tagging done on windows as I am lazy to search and it does not impact SQ

What we need is a burning PC Festival (:-)

BR
Jean-Louis
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Old 4th July 2013, 03:23 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLOP View Post
......
What we need is a burning PC Festival ....(:-)
You mean " Burning audio PC festival !"

Hey, why not make it part of the upcoming BAF ?
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Old 8th July 2013, 10:44 AM   #75
JLOP is offline JLOP  France
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Yes, for sure, I did not want a PC-dafé ! The thing is when you see the forum stats on "PC Based", there is surprisingly not a huge interest ... Sure a session at BAF ould be great !
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Old 12th July 2013, 04:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by gk7 View Post
Yes, and we (who actually use Linux) like it that way.

So you think Linux should change to please people who don´t use it,
and annoy those who do ?
Only if you continue to claim that it is better, when it isn't. You guys have an exclusive clique, like in High School. It's a teenager mentality.

I won't get into any extended debate about it and will post one message to this thread on this subject.

I am a top .1% Wxx power user. My machine has a custom 50kb registry tweak file among other refinements. Several years ago I read the claim from Linux Flavour Fans such as yourself and I then spent the next year and over 200 hours attempting to get Linux, I tried 6+ distros, to do 10% of what Wxx does.

The driver issues alone are enough to keep away 99% of people. That was solved with Windows in the early 90's. The simple task of getting a NIC to work in this day and age was absurd.

The file format compatibility assures that few will use it. You cannot swap files easily. You cannot use apps across platforms. The emulators you will mention don't work or crash or slow down the machine. The file driver extensions you mention often have the same problems. The time and money you 'save' on increased security are wasted on the time tinkering and getting it to simply work as a Wintel box does.

Those of us with huge music collections want it to simply work. Quickly. Easily. Without hours of nonsense that the Wintel platform left in the early 1980's. I would like to instal a Linux distro and then just one click access my entire NTFS hard drives and edit, delete or play that information. I have lots of music and want to play it on Ubuntu, in its native FAT32 format as an example.

Not possible. Too complicated, Things always go wrong. Disasters happen when recommended package updates brick the installation.

The argument that is most often made is that Linux is used in most of the world's supercomputers, smartphones, and internet servers. Professionals all over the world use it.

My reply is that you would not, and could not, use a Formula 1 car to take a trip to the grocery store to buy vegetables. You would use a normal car.

The Formula 1 is Linux - unsuitable for 99+% of all computer users.

Never again will I attempt to 'make computing fun again' by installing a Linux distro for any reason AND I recommend that no one else do so, either.

You guys have your exclusive club that has made it intentionally difficult for normal people to use Linux and you like it that way and want to keep it that way.

End rant/
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Old 13th July 2013, 07:54 AM   #77
cyteen is offline cyteen  England
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Default Entitlement, what's the cure.

Quote:
an exclusive clique, like in High School. It's a teenager mentality.
It's an exclusive clique of people who do the work on it themselves and provide everything they used to do it, plus what they achieved for free to everyone who wants it and still thats not enough for you and some how you feel excluded. The mind boggles.

Quote:
I am a top .1% Wxx power user. My machine has a custom 50kb registry tweak file among other refinements. Several years ago I read the claim from Linux Flavour Fans such as yourself and I then spent the next year and over 200 hours attempting to get Linux, I tried 6+ distros, to do 10% of what Wxx does.
200 hours, Some choose to live in a Free OS environment, you choose to live elsewhere. Change is uncomfortable , change is good. When you change you grow.

Quote:
The driver issues alone are enough to keep away 99% of people.
If you try to install 6+ linux distros on a machine without supported hardware don't be surprised if not of them install smoothly. If the hardware manufactures continue make equipment without open source driver implementation who do you imagine that an open source OS will support the devices. It's alot of work. Either use a new pc with supported devices or use an older pc which generally just work.

Quote:
The file format compatibility assures that few will use it.
Some just use open formats and abandon software that doesn't support it. Cross platform works just fine after that. Maybe the incompatibility issue does not lay with the free OS.

Quote:
Those of us with huge music collections want it to simply work
.

Maybe you don't understand the problem, see 'formats' above.



Quote:
The argument that is most often made is that Linux is used in most of the world's supercomputers, smartphones, and internet servers. Professionals all over the world use it.

My reply is that you would not, and could not, use a Formula 1 car to take a trip to the grocery store to buy vegetables. You would use a normal car.
It is also in every low level router dive and most embedded applications hardly formula 1. You only have to learn it once and you can use/develop on any platform from embedded, router, tablet server, virtual and cluster. what is more the fundamentals haven't changed since the 70's

Quote:
Never again will I attempt to 'make computing fun again' by installing a Linux distro for any reason AND I recommend that no one else do so, either.
Can't learn, won't learn and doesn't recommend the others do so either. Best to stay fiddling with your registry files.

Quote:
You guys have your exclusive club that has made it intentionally difficult for normal people to use Linux and you like it that way and want to keep it that way.
With that attitude I imagine you get lots of help. Maybe its just you they don't want in the club. It's a teenager mentality.

Last edited by cyteen; 13th July 2013 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 31st July 2013, 09:11 AM   #78
Sjef is offline Sjef  Netherlands
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I have messed around with windows, osx. Linux. Debian etc in the past but in the end settled on windows and I have been running MP3toys for years now. Far out the best audio player out there. It's no longer supported (still for sale though, and very cheap as well, it's a bargain) but after all those years no one has come up with something better. So in the end, for me it's the interface that matters most. It's soo much more convenient then all the database lookalike players out there like Itunes, mediamonkey, Jriver, foobar, whatever. I have tried almost everything available and still MP3toys is a clear winner to me by a very big margin. It's miles ahead of any competition for me. It does have it's limitations offcoarse ( first of all a very misleading name) but there one thing it does so very well and that is that it lets you stay in close contact with your music collection, well I gues you have to try it to know what I mean.
And too bad it doesn't have asio support but with my RME fireface the windows isn't a problem anyways.

If it was linux software I simply would be using linux, same for osx, debian whatever. It happens to be windows only so I use windows.
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Old 31st July 2013, 09:18 AM   #79
Sjef is offline Sjef  Netherlands
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Oh and sorry for sounding like a commercial ad, it's not. I just happened to be a big fan.
Oh and if you try, the software really works best on screens with a vertical resolution of at least 1024 pixels, preferably higher. Something not so common these days with al the widescreen laptops out there (never understood this trend of reducing vertical resolution anyways)
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Old 3rd August 2013, 12:44 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyteen View Post
With that attitude I imagine you get lots of help. Maybe its just you they don't want in the club. It's a teenager mentality.
Your response is what I would expect from a teenage boy and it's typical in the Linux 'community'. I am approaching 60 - I have no time for such immaturity.
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