BTW if you want a Linux music server that works "out of the box" you might want to
try Vortexbox: VortexBox user forum - About
try Vortexbox: VortexBox user forum - About
As a linux user, I have to say that one of the most irritating thing happen to linux audio was the switching from OSS to ALSA crap. You can switch back to OSS but if you are capable of dealing with difficulties of it. Nowadays big percentage of developers writing audio device drivers/software for ALSA crap. Then PulseAudio sh*t came after as a "feature". This is not good, neither an Open Source philosophy. OSS is a well proven and common *nix standard.
It is just not the ALSA.. For example, you can't find a simple and effective software in linux comparable to fb2k. Yes I know there are similar ones in tons of audio players is but the problem is not the interface. I think that linux audio software developers lack of quality audio reproduction point of view.
Btw, if you aren't a skilled linux user, i think it is hard to get better from linux. In this perspective, I respect to complaints regarding to this issue from windows users.
It is just not the ALSA.. For example, you can't find a simple and effective software in linux comparable to fb2k. Yes I know there are similar ones in tons of audio players is but the problem is not the interface. I think that linux audio software developers lack of quality audio reproduction point of view.
Btw, if you aren't a skilled linux user, i think it is hard to get better from linux. In this perspective, I respect to complaints regarding to this issue from windows users.
Last edited:
I tested a lot of linux flavors and distros and was not too pleased with what I got. As it was for playing music I tested Voyage MPD and mpdPuP, but I was still not satisfied... But I was aware of the fact that I then needed to adapt to what others had defined.. So I took the big job to learn and then modify kernel source code and compile my own kernels, to build the base system with debootstrap and setup everything manually, to modify the MPD source code and compile etc.. In the end I had a linux system totally customized for me and my own use - and was satisfied..
So my advice are: Either you use a linux distro that works with very little knowledge and you must accept what others have defined, or you use time and learn enough to build your own customized linux..
Think of "sudo" as meaning "please" in some language.
I rather like the idea of an operating system that does what you want it to if you ask nicely. As opposed to windows, which tends to so what it wants to, whether you like it or not.
Main concern I think is x000 distros, each guy explaining that his is better than the neighbourgh, and very difficult to choose one rather than the other.
They waste their time in developping the same functions, and our time too, trying to learn them and choose amongst them. It is an ego problem, they'd better coordinate their efforts on less distros but more user friendly.
Some tools are also totally obsolete ergonomically speaking, eg alsamixer, HD mounting ...
Just thoughts from would be Linux guy who does not have so many Time to learn...
Jean-Louis
They waste their time in developping the same functions, and our time too, trying to learn them and choose amongst them. It is an ego problem, they'd better coordinate their efforts on less distros but more user friendly.
Some tools are also totally obsolete ergonomically speaking, eg alsamixer, HD mounting ...
Just thoughts from would be Linux guy who does not have so many Time to learn...
Jean-Louis
"They waste their time in developing the same functions"
They choose to spend their time on the code they find most interesting or useful. You can too. Its how it all became what it is today. All computers are a pain, the pain in the Free world is different than in the pain in the paid for world. You get to choose. It's free as in freedom and free as in beer but that's where it ends.
Complaining that people who do things for their own entertainment and share this willingly have an ego problem could be seen as the the pot calling the kettle black.
It's may be time to roll up your sleeves and write that new shiny replacement for alsamixer since that seems important to you. But alsamixer is an implementation to show the use of the api. Prettier/more consistant mixer programs come with every single desktop, gnome-mixer/kmixer etc.
They choose to spend their time on the code they find most interesting or useful. You can too. Its how it all became what it is today. All computers are a pain, the pain in the Free world is different than in the pain in the paid for world. You get to choose. It's free as in freedom and free as in beer but that's where it ends.
Complaining that people who do things for their own entertainment and share this willingly have an ego problem could be seen as the the pot calling the kettle black.
It's may be time to roll up your sleeves and write that new shiny replacement for alsamixer since that seems important to you. But alsamixer is an implementation to show the use of the api. Prettier/more consistant mixer programs come with every single desktop, gnome-mixer/kmixer etc.
Last edited:
********. Man, I get so tired of this simple-minded view of Linux and how "hard" it is.
Linux, and most of the pieces that make up the typical distribution, are community projects, meaning they are designed and built by volunteers. Even those bits created by programmers paid for their work are contributed to the project for free. Most of the projects are aimed at solving a problem or providing for a need ...and nothing more. That this leaves out the bits that you'd like to see has nothing to do with the attitudes of the designers, programmers, or the users for whom such work has been done.
Look, I use Linux extensively. It's part of my job, so you might say that I am "into it". On the other hand, I consider it unusable as music server. Linux audio is a disorganized pile of badly documented pieces that often (usually) don't fit well together, but it is just plain stupid to consider that this was some evil design perpetrated by arrogant elitists. Lazy, perhaps, or cheap, in the case where this or that bit was contributed by someone who paid to have it built, but that's about the most one can honestly say about the shortcomings of Linux in this area.
All that said, if you are willing to put of with the frustrations involved, especially the poor documentation, you can build a media server that will outshine just about anything you can do with Windows, and as as already been pointed out, on much more modest (and green) hardware. If your ears are sophisticated enough, by all means go this route and spend the money you've saved on a better DAC. If, like me, you'd rather spend your time listening to music than diddling with the tools, Add Foobar to your Windows stack, by a decent DAC and enjoy.
Alsa is a nonsense from scratch movement over oss. It is linux only, which means it doesn't share same code base with other *nix variants. If all of those device driver writing efforts wasted for alsa were served for oss, we should have a better API with better support. I'm not going to argue with sound quality comparison but in technical terms, oss offers more sophisticated api within clean implementation.
At least, you can refer to oss and alsa comparison section at this link:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Open_Sound_System
Last edited:
Hi cyteen
No question any developper may do what he wants. And I myself use mpdpup everyday flawlessly with great pleasure.
Please consider the thread topic : Linux Audio the way to go. The question is not for the few very skilled geeks that may themselves build up their own kernel, as RayCtech above, but I believe to Audio oriented guys / Audiophiles you usually find in DIYAUDIO
I believe more turnkey systems eg Androïd, Windows, OSX will not loose their market share against these too many Linux distros given present conditions. And that would be a shame, wouldn't it ? So how could these fantastic communities concentrate their skills to build a killer audio system rather than 10 or 50 half supported ones ? I love freedom but successes too
. That´s called collaboration, tough job btw PS : dont count on me for next alsamixer unfortunately, I would ruin all the efforts
So, is there some type of consensus with some people that sticking with windows could actually be more beneficial, as you don't have to mess with it much and the sound quality is about the same?
I do know I have to get a soundcard that is ASIO compatible to get the best sound out of my old xp. Windows 7 is supposed to be better for sound quality out of the box...
I do know I have to get a soundcard that is ASIO compatible to get the best sound out of my old xp. Windows 7 is supposed to be better for sound quality out of the box...
It's true that SQ is essentially the same, so need not be a consideration. However, I don't think you'll ever get a consensus, there will alway be 'camps'. IMO using Windows has no benefits at all because you can't remove all that useless stuff from the OS. That is, stuff not required for playing music. Sure, if the PC is not specifically a server then it may not matter, and if you need a GUI, well Linux can still be minimalized. For me, it was a no-brainer to use Linux as I can eliminate unnecessary software and my solution is a headless server that runs a kernel, sound server and NFS and MPD only. A fast, simple, resource-lean PC that requires zero maintenance that only plays music is a an elegant solution that suits me.
Indeed the best solution and by far the best value for money, for little effort. For 0$ you have a solution competing with 600 or 800 $ Windows PC + JRiver or Jplay. Many tests you can read there and there show that SQ with bare systems is better than windows, or at least equivalent.
But a real shootout with the same configuration, ABX listening, is still to be done as far as I know. I have to recognize it is much more difficult to set up than just switching a DAC or a transport...
But a real shootout with the same configuration, ABX listening, is still to be done as far as I know. I have to recognize it is much more difficult to set up than just switching a DAC or a transport...
linux had its chance. there was a window where it could have made some mainstream inroads but the fact is it's just not user-friendly and its supporters are often a PITA. Just googling linux and audio produces nothing but confusing and complicated discussion and hilarious contradictions. Windows or Mac you plug in a product and voila you can get bit perfect no fuss no muss.
Sure linux is more secure - because no one is using it.
Sure linux is more secure - because no one is using it.
You might be surprised about the amount of services that are run with linux.
It´s just not a "drop in replacement" for Windows (fortunately) and it was
never meant to be.
Actually, this is exactly how I view the endless discussions about ASIO/kernel streaming/wasapi/wasapi exclusive event for windows and integer mode for mac. In linux, I always know exactly what my sound software and hardware is doing. I have complete control over my HW, at any time I can check parameters of data entering the sound card (sample size, sample rate, number of channels), size of DMA buffer used, etc. For most cards I can even check values of individual registers in the soundcard controller and the codecs (the actual chips on the card). That is my reason for using linux. I do not want to be just wild guessing about my software and hardware, something I see being discussed all the time by windows and mac users. Just the IMO trivial task of finding out the actual samplerate and sample size without programming some tools is unattainable by closed-source OS users.
In linux I know that alsa "hw:X" device will always talk straight to the hardware, no processing in between. Ask mac users fighting the integer mode about such functionality.
Of course I had to put quite a few hours into learning the stuff first.
far away from the reality, especially the bit-perfection part. Every discussion forum is packed with windows users having problems with their software/hardware combination.But there are lots of users who do not care about their HW details, who are used to fussing with windows as a standard mode of operation, and are perfectly happy. Good for them. Linux will not provide any additional value to them and there is no reason they should learn the different way things are done in linux. The same for happy mac users.
I still do not understand why non-linux users complain about linux and keep listing reasons why they cannot use it. I do not complain about windows, I have no need to use it. Why do they?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.