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Old 9th February 2013, 06:09 AM   #21
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrenkin View Post
This is why a RAID for backup.
Yes, provided the backup raid part is added to the array and synchronized e.g. once a week on-demand while kept offline (unplugged) the remaining time. Such setup takes some scripting to require least effort for the human.
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Old 9th February 2013, 06:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phofman View Post
Yes, provided the backup raid part is added to the array and synchronized e.g. once a week on-demand while kept offline (unplugged) the remaining time. Such setup takes some scripting to require least effort for the human.
I do not see the need for back-up - IF the correct RAID mode is selected.

Incremental back-ups should be trivial to establish with a good back-up utility.



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Old 9th February 2013, 06:45 AM   #23
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by KMossman View Post
I do not see the need for back-up - IF the correct RAID mode is selected.
The most common reason for going back to backups is a file incidentally deleted by the user. In my company the backuppc web interface gets accessed by workers for exactly this reason surprisingly often.

Raid is NO replacement for backup. Raid is a way to increase performance and reliability of the running system. Raid1 spares me of the hassles with copying from backups if one of the drives fails. But having the backup is still crucial.

Quote:
Incremental back-ups should be trivial to establish with a good back-up utility.
It is. Yet how many people do that?
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMossman View Post
I do not see the need for back-up - IF the correct RAID mode is selected.

Incremental back-ups should be trivial to establish with a good back-up utility.

Di ba?! oo - i know konti lang tagalog!
Would you recommend any utility or software?

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Old 9th February 2013, 07:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phofman View Post
The most common reason for going back to backups is a file incidentally deleted by the user.
Raid is NO replacement for backup. Raid is a way to increase performance and reliability of the running system. Raid1 spares me of the hassles with copying from backups if one of the drives fails. But having the backup is still crucial.

It is. Yet how many people do that?
You are mixing up arguments / positions.

Yes a full backup is highly desirable. The OP does indicate he has numerous original sources already, however.

Yes incremental backup should be done. It is pointless to say that few people do it - their ignorance is their problem. Live and learn.

I am puzzled by your comments on RAID. Maybe you wrote too quickly.
You might wish to refer to an authoritative source.


[ not to say I know it all, but ............. I did work as an IT Manager for 20 years; 10 in Canada, and 10 in Asia. ]
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyk View Post
Here is my system, growing all the time.
NAS, Switches, and Modem

Click the image to open in full size.

Router, VoIP, baby switch
Click the image to open in full size.

Start with the NAS If you notice they are all in pairs! (except for one, that is a scratch area for temp storage) That is because they are mirrored. So I have my files stored twice, redundancy in case of failure. Hard drives fail... not if, when. Disks are really cheap these days, what are your files worth? The NAS consists of those 4 white boxes, they are Seagate Dock stars, they have four USB ports each. I got them for $15.00 US each, they still sell them on eBay. They are SMB compatible so can be seen as a share on the network, they are also pogo plug, a bit of a pain, but handy in some respects.
The switches are 8 port Gigabit managed switches cheap on ebaybut fast and reliable. The SOHO stuff just did not cut it. So that's my storage.
My media is music, and videos. All of my CD collection is ripped into flac files I also have a large Grateful Dead and live music collection. I have my DVD collection ripped and stored and I have a dual TV tuner, use Media Center to record TV shows, MCEbuddy to remove commercials and shrink the files.
I access the video with Western Digital TV Live Plus boxes on my three TV sets. They allow me to play all my media as well as HULU and Netflix. I can play music too. For music I have a little atom based PC running Win 7 and Foobar. It has SPDIF and I also use USB.
SO with my setup I can watch a movie or TV hsow from all of my TVs and play music with my "music box". I also have this available on all the laptops my iPad and iPhone as well as my wife's androids.
I have built this system over the last few years and it is fairly bullet proof, works well and has a high WAF!
That's a home entertainment complex, nice
Will check some of that out more when I have more time, eg MCEbuddy (life is too short to watch ads), and Dockstar

Thanks
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Old 9th February 2013, 11:30 AM   #27
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMossman View Post
Yes a full backup is highly desirable. The OP does indicate he has numerous original sources already, however.

Yes incremental backup should be done.
Full vs. incremental backups are just backup strategies. The important question is "is there any backup at all in case of need"


Quote:
I am puzzled by your comments on RAID. Maybe you wrote too quickly.
You might wish to refer to an authoritative source.
I am not sure I understand what you mean. Raid1 (mirror) can be used as a backup tool, actually a very flexible one. It allows to keep the backup synchronized up to the last moment of removing the backup drive from the raid array, while the backed-up machine is fully operational. But I am talking about an external drive being part of the raid array. That is why I mentioned the eSATA port of that HP microserver.

For specific details e.g. see my blog post Offline Copies for Central BackupPC server | Blog IVITERA a.s. . BTW that is my daily parttime job - IT admin in our company, for about 16 years now (the remaining part of the day I am trying to learn from our sales team). I just do not know if that is the authoritative source you have asked for
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Old 9th February 2013, 12:33 PM   #28
billyk is offline billyk  United States
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That backup stuff is all well and good, and don't get me wrong you NEED a backup strategy. But most of the SOHO stuff is crap and unreliable. Simple is always better. That is why I like my system of manually mirrored, cheap drives, shared on the network. It is a bit more work but so simple. I use a few scripts to manage it all, along with a sycro utility. Need to think of the end user in all of this, for an IT pro it's easy for us.

BTW here is my work system:
Click the image to open in full size.

16 blade server rack, 132 Gb SAN. Use snapshot and data de-duplication for backup, but swear by good ol shadow copy for the day to day, "lost my file" calls.

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Old 9th February 2013, 01:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phofman View Post
Full vs. incremental backups are just backup strategies. The important question is "is there any backup at all in case of need"
That is totally backwards. You need a backup strategy to implement backups, otherwise you are just jerking around.
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Old 9th February 2013, 01:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyk View Post
;;;; my system of manually mirrored, cheap drives, shared on the network. It is a bit more work but so simple. I use a few scripts to manage it all, along with a sycro utility. Need to think of the end user in all of this, for an IT pro it's easy for us.
perhaps you can share your scripts............

Not sure what you mean by 'manually mirrored'

I'll agree that anything coming from MS is dubious.


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