Sorry CopperTop, I don't follow.This thread (IMO) is not as bad as all that.
It's pretty straight forward, isn't it?
- The OP reported hearing differences in files that should be identical.
- Most of the responses have been of serious doubt that could be the case.
- The OP was asked to take a blind test to determine if the differences heard are real or imagined. He agreed to do so in private. We have no results from him yet.
- A number of other people have done the test and reported no difference heard
The fact that some people have actually bothered to perform the test themselves seems fairly remarkable to me. But the main thing I was objecting to was the notion that "real differences are for philosophers", and that placebo effects are interchangeable with physically measurable ones.
The most revered authorities around here say "Only believe your ears", yet here we have a cast iron example where 'ears' are wrong. I want to know how to build the best amplifier possible, but if, in future, such a revered contributor says "Use topology X rather than Y. It sounds much better", how will I know whether it is a real difference, or just their own personal 'placebo'?
They don't mean that. They say: 'my ears are so good, I don't need no stinkin' controlled tests'.
Such a statement is of course contradictory in itself.
They don't really trust their ears - else they would embrace controlled testing as a great chance to prove the reliability and/or superiority of their ears.
jan
I wonder who those would be. Someone who would say "do this, it sounds much better than that" without proper objective backing of his claim would be no credible authority to me.
Maybe the situation should be expressed differently. The difference outlined in post is real ie it exists. The question is, does it exist only in the OP's mind (where it isn't much use to anyone else) or does it exist outside his mind (where it may be of value to the rest of us). The stated claim is that it exists outside his mind.
Did the same test today, ripped a track I know very well (Dire Straits - Private Investigations) with calibrated EAC (Windows 7 64), both in normal and safe mode, checksum with exactfile reported that they were the same. Put them in the network and played them with my main system (a W7 machine with fidelizer, AD1865 NOS DAC) in continuous loop for more than half an hour, same result as palmito, i cannot ear any difference at all in the tracks.
I've done the tests because i was just curious to see and it took just 10 minutes to rip the tracks in both modes, but my opinion were and still is that the very same file (same crc) should play the same, no way they can sound different. Erin probably got some problem with his sytem i suppose.
Bye.
Interesting way to approach it. Yes it obviously exists; or rather it did exist at one time. The OP reported that he heard a difference so it is clear that he experienced a difference in perception.
But we know that perception is based on many factors, only one of which is the air vibrations that are getting in your ear. So the basic question we have is: was that difference that was perceived due to differences in the air vibrations getting in his ear or was it due to other factor(s)?
If erin takes SY's test and gets 8 or 9 out of 10 right, it's a strong case that the differences were indeed due to the sound only.
And then we engineers have a huge problem...
jan
This thread has pretty much run its course mudslinging and all and after much discussion amongst the mods it is closed.- Status
- Not open for further replies.