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Old 17th March 2012, 12:27 PM   #121
gk7 is offline gk7
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Ok, Simon use whatever you like (as long it is reliable). My point is that we should know if the two ripping strategies produced two different files or not. Im under the impression that the OP assumes they are identical (bitwise), but actually he said "the same checksum". The checksum tool used is unknown, so I suggested a known good one.
 
Old 17th March 2012, 12:31 PM   #122
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If your level of understanding of how oversampling works is based on that Wikipedia article I suggest you find a somewhat more authoritative text. Try this one and keep your eyes peeled for the phrase 'zero stuffing'.

tutorials: oversampling [SynthMaker]
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Old 17th March 2012, 12:34 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Sha256 will provide go/no go but using Audacity to attempt to null one by summing with the inverse of the other will provide a measure of the degree of corruption (if any).
Sorry dont understand what you mean by "go/no go". If two files have the same sha256 sum the are identical to the last bit. (Or you have found a collision in the algorithm which is unlikely to happen in the time remaining until the earth crashes into the sun...)
 
Old 17th March 2012, 12:38 PM   #124
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What I mean by go/no go is it provides a binary (yes/no) answer to the question 'Is the file corrupted?'. If you get a 'corrupt' answer there's no measure available for how significant that corruption is - could just be a single LSB in the lead-in to the track. Whereas I reckon its more useful to know something about what kind of corruption is present (if any at all).
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Seek not the favour of the multitude...rather the testimony of few. And number not voices, but weigh them. - Kant
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Old 17th March 2012, 12:47 PM   #125
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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Exactfile will do SHA256 and many more.
The attached is from a couple sent to HFC several months ago.Both files gave the same result
SandyK

1a99e4a50995e6132da765105eb3cd552541f8186cd169ae77 eb57dc6bbd7481 ?SHA256*Private Investigations.wav
 
Old 17th March 2012, 12:52 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
What I mean by go/no go is it provides a binary (yes/no) answer to the question 'Is the file corrupted?'. If you get a 'corrupt' answer there's no measure available for how significant that corruption is - could just be a single LSB in the lead-in to the track. Whereas I reckon its more useful to know something about what kind of corruption is present (if any at all).
Exactly.

I am almost positive that we can't get 2 CRC's the same. The problem i feel lies in the drives themselves with all their error correction, dithering, dithering rejection, jitter / anti jitter, laser errors. This all happens at the bitstream level, before we even convert to a number. Like i said earlier, yellow book fixes a lot of these problems by having multiple levels of error correction. Red Book is hit and miss and really doesn't care if it misses the odd 1 or 0 because you won't hear it.

BUT, do we care ... as long as the error level is acceptable and we can't hear it, it wouldn't bother me. Until today i knew the errors existed but didn't think they were audible.

Now Erin has made me question whether or not these errors are audible. It seems with the software solutions available now, that these errors are measurable and can be minimised.

btw ... 2 people have done the test .... BOTH have reported results saying there is a difference,

100% - Safe mode is better
0% - Safe mode no difference.

** Don't get me wrong ... we still need to do a bit test to be sure ... that would make this thread obsolete then ... Now if only i had an audio CD

Last edited by DaveDaGr8; 17th March 2012 at 01:00 PM.
 
Old 17th March 2012, 12:56 PM   #127
gk7 is offline gk7
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"with all their error correction, dithering, dithering rejection, jitter / anti jitter, laser errors. This all happens at the bitstream level, before we even convert to a number."

none of this happens when you rip a cd, better read up how this works.
 
Old 17th March 2012, 01:02 PM   #128
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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Dave
With EAC you have the facility tlo calibrate your Optical drives using the EAC server. This ensures repeatable results provided that the CDs are not in poor condition and the Optical Drives have no problems reading the contents.
This results in all writers producing .wav files with identical check sums for the ripped track(s) I have 3 different Optical devices calibrated with EAC.
SandyK
 
Old 17th March 2012, 01:02 PM   #129
Simon B is offline Simon B  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
If your level of understanding of how oversampling works is based on that Wikipedia article I suggest you find a somewhat more authoritative text. Try this one and keep your eyes peeled for the phrase 'zero stuffing'.

tutorials: oversampling [SynthMaker]


I'm sorry, a "more authoritative text" didn't seem appropriate - if you read the article you refer to, you'll see (surprise, surprise) that zero stuffing is relevant to Upsampling, ie increasing the sampling rate. Oversampling is something altogether different.

I'll leave it at that, this thread already has more tangents than a trigonometry class.

 
Old 17th March 2012, 01:06 PM   #130
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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And so far we've not been presented with any evidence at all. Just opinion, and instruction that we must gather the evidence ourselves.
is this the scientific way to confirm, or not, a new finding?

The peers see the claim and the method and try to reproduce it.
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