My feelings exactly. And if you tell me that you don't have to prove anything, you saw it and that's that, it deserves to be dismissed out of hand without everyone spending hours staring at an aquarium.
NOTES
Trolling is posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html
Trolling is posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html
The first golden rule you forgot is thou shalt not troll and ridicule with ones pestering views where one cannot progress with a thread they started because of such harassment .
If you do not agree with the person let him be and most of all be an adult . Progress comes from unconventional thinking which you seem to considerably lack if you had an inking of imagination you would accept this as one of those times and let the thread progress to see its out come be it wrong or right instead of childishly harassing people .
If this thread is not of any benefit to you then please feel free to start your own thread .
That´s great news, know we know for sure that the files identical.
This leaves us with two possibilities:
a) Identical files _are_ identical and you are deluding yourself
b) You managed to make those files identical _and_ different at the
same time (probably by some quantum mechanical fluke only known
to you).
In the latter case I´m very impressed to know a future nobel prize winner.
What is correct, do you think, a) or b) ?
Blimey Paul, lighten up a bit! "Troll and ridicule" ? "Pestering views" ? "Most of all be an adult" ? "Harassment" ?
Ok, I have asked about simple testing of files several times, having not received an answer previously - but harassment?
Even though I am, for what to most people are obvious reasons, quite disbelieving of Erin's claims I've tried to be constructive and put forward a way for those claims to be tested.
I've also tried Erin's comparison, even though I am convinced of the fact that two files that are identical on a bit level will only ever sound different if played back in a different way.
I believe Erin is completely and obviously wrong in this. To most people, this is blindingly obvious. Everyone makes mistakes, I know I do. Sometimes people laugh at other's errors, that is only human.
I don't think I've been too harsh or disrespectful towards Erin and I honestly hope he doesn't feel that I have.
On the other hand, I'm not in the least bit sorry to have failed to live up to your standards of "being adult".
The term 'deluding' is derogatory and incorrect.
There are many psycho-acoustic reasons and circumstances that makes it possible that a certain sound is 'perceived' differently at different times or at different places. This has all been well documented for many decades now, but for some reason it is still often unknown in audio circles. Which is odd, as perception is the basis for all audio experiences.
So, it's not a matter of being deluded; it's a matter of being part of the human species, and it's something we ALL are subject to.
Knowledge of these perception issues is the reason why many here ask for some form of controlled test, to make sure that your perception is fed by your ears ONLY.
It's the ultimate trust in your ears.
jan
I'd say that how something sounds is how you perceive it as you hear it. Even though I'm completely sceptical of Erin's claims, when I listen to the two files I ripped (one normal, one safe), both identical at bit level, sometimes they sound different to other times, I perceive them differently.
The difference between me and erin is that I don't get any correlation between rip method and perceived quality.
I agree Abraxalito, the same thing can and does vary in how it sounds, perception does vary.
If anyone here seriously doubts the 'tricks' that what we see can play on what we hear, search on YouTube for the McGurk effect and watch (and listen to) one of the videos. Then perhaps we won't get so many remarks like 'delusion' or 'you only think you hear it'.
McGurk effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
McGurk effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How are we defining the word 'sound' (as in "they sound different")? Is it all in the mind, perception etc., or in quantifiable physical variations in air pressure or whatever? If it's the former, then yes, to Erin they do sound different because he's expecting them to. I've experienced such things myself on many occasions.
Edit: seems I took too long making my comment. Everyone's said the same thing in the meantime!
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Can't quite see the fundamental difference between your mind "playing tricks because of what you see" and "you only think you hear it"...
Could you expand on that?
(by the way, if there's a nerdy pun in there, it's not intentional)
The everyday meaning - what's subjectively perceived via our ears.
How have you ascertained that he was expecting them to sound different? Certainly expectations play a major part - I'd expect the objectivists who do the test to hear no difference because they 'know' that bit-identical files cannot sound different. So they hear what they 'know' - this is called the nocebo effect. Erin's hearing of differences may well be placebo, but its too soon to tell without further research.
So are you keeping an open mind on the possibility that there may be an actual objective difference between the files?
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