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Old 28th February 2012, 09:56 AM   #201
Raj1 is offline Raj1  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
AGREE totaly on the clock misunderstanding




Sorry to shatter your delusions. but the whole point of digital is the 1s and 0s, and getting the signal from the transmitter to the receiver.

Sorry to shatter your perception. You haven't shattered a thing. I am talking about noise pickup and its passing out to the DAC and analog stages, you are talking about 1s and 0s.

Last edited by Raj1; 28th February 2012 at 09:58 AM.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 12:33 PM   #202
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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You metioned 1s and 0s.
If your worried about the digital noise then use galvonic isolation.
As we are talking about a STAT interface we are talking digital...
Anyway you got some free info on digital design and signal integrity
 
Old 28th February 2012, 02:25 PM   #203
Raj1 is offline Raj1  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
You metioned 1s and 0s.
If your worried about the digital noise then use galvonic isolation.
As we are talking about a STAT interface we are talking digital...
Anyway you got some free info on digital design and signal integrity
You have no idea what I already do and don't know. But hey carry on assuming if it makes you feel good.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 03:29 PM   #204
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SATA bus embedded lower frequency clock as control signal
So,that is no Clock Generator in a SATA ROM
 
Old 28th February 2012, 04:16 PM   #205
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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I neither care or give a damm what you do, the info was given freely, read it and learn or not, its your choice.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 04:20 PM   #206
Raj1 is offline Raj1  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
I neither care or give a damm what you do, the info was given freely, read it and learn or not, its your choice.
You are the one that needs to learn. Giving out free info and then implying it should bear cost. Learn to think beyond the world of one's and zeros and understand the audio domain.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 04:34 PM   #207
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppastudio View Post
SATA bus embedded lower frequency clock as control signal
So,that is no Clock Generator in a SATA ROM
OK, but how does that clock relate to the clock in the sound card?
 
Old 28th February 2012, 05:03 PM   #208
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Quote:
Sata cable provides a higher bandwidth, more dynamic, more clarity and better musical
Thats just ridicules on so many levels. Does your magic SATA cable also make pictures clearer, spreadsheets have data with more decimal places, and word documents have a conclusion that makes sense? No it dosnt, and it dosnt make any difference with audio. Its all just data. The cable dosnt care if its audio or text. (Timing is immaterial, the data is buffered (in the ram) and timed by the computer). This is equivalent to buffering the whole song turning the SATA drive off and then playing the song out of RAM. How much will the SATA cable effect the sound now.

Last edited by cbdb; 28th February 2012 at 05:21 PM.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 06:49 PM   #209
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I can't believe I'm falling for this thread again.
If anybody observes that a SATA cable makes a difference to their sound, then their is something seriously wrong with their system.
If you worry about noise radiating from your SATA cable, then sort your DAC PSU and shielding out.
There is no way that the clocking on a SATA interface is at all linked to the master clock of a DAC.

Does anybody worry about other digital transfer mechanisms? I've been thinking about Wifi over nitrogen enriched air. Thing is, it's a sod to keep in the house, and subtly alters the character of my speakers. Mind you, after all the effort, the difference is subtle, because I'm close to asphixiation during listening sessions.
 
Old 28th February 2012, 07:29 PM   #210
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Raj, we are talking about a digital interface.
The information was given freely, there is no cost or implication of a cost. The links are to the world rennowed experts in the field of EMC and signal integrity. If the noise is affecting other circuitry it is an EMC issue. Both Henry Ott and Keith Armstrong are your main sources of information here, read some of the stuff, it covers all frequencys of electronics.
Doing PCB's for communication systems and working as part of a team thats spent the last 4 years desiging the next generation system for a very big customer, suprisingly has given us all (in the team) an insight into how digial and analogue systems interact and how the noise from one can effect the other.
But in the digital domain 1s and 0s are king, and the SATA interface is digital.
Digital circuitry is noisy, to an extent, but most of the noise is very high frequency, way outside the audio range. This allows it to be filtered, inter stage CLC combinations are very good. But the only way to totaly isolate your PC form your DAC is galvonic isolation. But that still leaves the DAC where digital and analogue have to co-exist in the same chip, never mind the same board. Isolating the PC is a ggod move and the best way to electronicly isolate it is by using a optical fibre interface, or use a squeezebox wirelessly, youve then isolated the very noisy PC from your DAC, then there is only the local noise to worry about, and that will be a lot less than a PC generates. Another way is to isolate the digital using an ADUM device or a custom planar pulse transformer with shield layers to stop the noise coupling capacitivley.
But playing around with esoteric SATA cables isn't gonna have the magical effect claimed on sound repreduction...
Most PC boards are designed with a minimum number of layers for cost purposes, the interface chips are designed to allow for routing on 6 layers in some cases. That is why you see the signal traces on the top of the board, especially running to the DDR memory. That is not best practice, all the signals are better run on inner layers as stripline, with a contigous unbroken ground plane next to them, and all power planes with a closely coupled ground plane (sub 0.1mm dialectric between the planes). So getting the best layed out motherboard you can with a well speced power supply is the best bet. HDI (high density interconnect) PCB motherboards would be best, I dont know if any mainstreem PC's are designed this way, but a lot of smaller mobile devices and critical electronics (mil/med/aero) use this way of doing digital PCB's to minimise the noise generated by the digital electronics, maximise EMC compatability and improve signal integrity.
So instead of using sticking plasters cure the problem.
 

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