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Old 13th January 2012, 03:42 PM   #131
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Could be done but youre forgetting the changing of the original file from one hardrive or memory stick over a couple of drives, then you could send the file which was gotten over the last move to me. Its the moving of the file around that I find deteriorates the sound heard although the file is unaltered according to size. You could do this with just one of the files and see if I can differentiate between the original file sent and a file that has been copied over a couple of times and versus files that have only been moved once.

I dont quite understand how youd want me to sort them, the original from the copies ??
 
Old 13th January 2012, 03:49 PM   #132
SY is offline SY  United States
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It's possible that I don't understand your claim.

I would:
Put the original file on the stick. Call it A. On the same stick, clone 4 more copies of A. Now, bring A up to my hard disk, copy back and forth ten times, put that on the stick. Call it B. Clone 4 more copies of B on the stick. Verify that A and B are bit identical (very likely with standard file systems). Now, rename all the files with random codes, and remove the time stamps. Send you the stick. Send someone else the key, i.e., which codes correspond to A and B.

You would:
Sort the codes into two groups- you wouldn't have to tell me which groups are the originals and which are the 10x copies, you just need to be able to say, "These five are the same as one another, these other five are the same as one another and different from the first group." Post your answer.

The person with the key would then post the correct answers.
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Old 13th January 2012, 03:51 PM   #133
Wombat is offline Wombat  Germany
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I wonder if this what you hear is the Higgs-Boson particles changing things between the bits. Cern should accelerate an mp3 file and not waste their time with protons.
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Old 13th January 2012, 03:52 PM   #134
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homemodder View Post
check number of bits to be the same as the original copy left behind on the drive and then compare with listening results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homemodder View Post
I find deteriorates the sound heard although the file is unaltered according to size. You could do this with just one of the files and see if I can differentiate between the original file sent and a file that has been copied over a couple of times and versus files that have only been moved once.
what is the bit check you are doing?

Could you Email a couple of files, that you find sound different so that those that can can check if the files are the same. That's a different check from adding up the bits.
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Old 13th January 2012, 04:27 PM   #135
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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If the files are the exactly the same I would love to hear some explanation as to how they can be different, sound wise. Funny this doesn't happen with other digital data, such as CAD files, more magic that only can be heard! There are plenty of binary file comparision programs available on the web...
Of course this then causes me to woory about all the places CRC's are used such as the internet, and where digital systems are used for control etc.
So anyone, why does this digital magic only happen in the Audiophile world and why when we build things like CERN, can it only be detected by ears?
 
Old 13th January 2012, 05:56 PM   #136
SY is offline SY  United States
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Well, first let's find out the facts. Are the files (original and multicopy) actually the same? If so, can hm sort them? I would certainly give an overwhelming probability to "yes" and "no," respectively, but it's such an easy experiment to do, why not? We can worry about explanations after the fact is demonstrated (if it is).
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:58 PM   #137
Wombat is offline Wombat  Germany
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AFAIK only one wrong bit in an mp3 will create an audible click and no change in sound. If not in the header of cause.

Edit: Most likely it wouldn´t be to decrompress at all. The player may spit out a decoding error even for this 1 bit. Of cause some decode thru errors but this broken bit will be an clearly audible click or stutter.
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Last edited by Wombat; 13th January 2012 at 06:04 PM.
 
Old 13th January 2012, 06:07 PM   #138
phofman is offline phofman  Czech Republic
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We can worry about explanations after the fact is demonstrated (if it is).

You will not have to worry, it will never be demonstrated. Just as it has never been. Just read any discussion forum. The "hearers" never get to the point of proving they can actually do what they claim to be miraculously capable of, with some shiny exceptions that prove the rule. BTW the topic of identical files sounding different is a hit these days, stirred by one incompetent article

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Old 13th January 2012, 06:11 PM   #139
SY is offline SY  United States
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I wouldn't say "worried." Very skeptical, for sure. But this is Pascal's Wager.
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Old 13th January 2012, 10:06 PM   #140
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I can differentiate between the original file sent and a file that has been copied over a couple of times and versus files that have only been moved once.


Is it at all possible that multiple copies result in a more fragmented file and this indirectly increases ps related jitter when reading? Or that some hdd areas are just easier to read than others. Not quite sure if it's easy to check for fragmentation of a particular file or if any hdd utilities allow writing a file to pre-determined sectors, so each subsequent copy gets written to the exact same physical location. It is also possible you may be hearing some secondary effects which just happen to occur after a copy. Like a cache gets full and needs flushing once reproduction begins. Who can possibly tell? Operating systems are complicated beasts these days and what seems like an innocuous operation may have unexpected side effects. Must be easy to find a program which once executed will mess up PC playback until restart.

Surely none of this can in any way be connected to the file and data contained in it. The notion of actually emailing such files (and especially to SY) i find deeply humorous.
 

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