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Old 12th January 2012, 12:09 PM   #91
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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I disagree to an extent, messing around with high speed digital with little or no regard to either engineeing basics or possible EMC mishaps is sheer folly. Also the whole of the digital repreduction chain has to be considered, the data is buffered from the disk to the eventual final stage before converting to analogue audio...
That said it aint gone change anything, audiophool myths will build (already have) up around digital, at least it will keep my blood pressure up...
Just out of interest what difference (audiophile difference, not real world) will silver plated copper make to a digital signal (I have seen both types of cable used, both tin and silver, for temerature reasons, not signal), just curious.
 
Old 12th January 2012, 12:12 PM   #92
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Andrew I would like to see an explanation of how if the bit pattern arrives the same how it could possibly sound different, its like booting up your Windows 7 system and getting Vista. And when we are talikin SATA cables ALL your data is gonna come down it as you boot up from a hard disk, then through the SATA controller interface, not forgetting the local look up buffer etc etc etc.........;
 
Old 12th January 2012, 12:18 PM   #93
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I would normally be extremely sceptical about this, but having had problems with my HT pC (running Mythdora) for more than 12 months where I just could not play DVD's reliably at all and kept getting really weird errors in the syslog, I googled once again and some guy said buy some better quality SATA cables (to some guy who was getting the same errors as me). I was highly sceptical (after all the exact same SATA cables were working fine on my HD's which should have had faster transfer rates than my DVD player), but I was desperate. So instead of the normal $5 a pop sata cables I forked out for a "fancy" $12 a pop SATA cable.

Not expecting it to make any difference, I put it in and miraculously the problem went away, and I could play DVD's. Nothing else had been changed, apart from the SATA cable. So for $12 I could have saved myself over a year of grief changing drivers, kernels, and god knows what else trying to get the damn dvd drive to work properly.

How does this relate to audible differences? I don't know, but if the cable quality can effect the ability of DVD's to play, then I'd say it could definitely cause problems with the fidelity of the digital signal getting from the cd/dvdrom drive to the motherboard, and then to whatever DAC solution is being used.

Tony.
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Last edited by wintermute; 12th January 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: minor typos
 
Old 12th January 2012, 12:31 PM   #94
SY is offline SY  United States
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Well, that's the thing about digital- you either get gross effects which are easy to fix (a $5 SATA cable to replace a defective one) and are evident in all sorts of data transfer, or you get nothing. Binary, as it were.

Now indeed, if there's some new sort of physics that has escaped the attention of large industries with much higher mission criticality but is evident to a group of audiophiles, then some evidence is needed. I rate that probability vanishingly low, but solid evidence triumphs preconception.
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Old 12th January 2012, 01:19 PM   #95
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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A good system, including PC's these days should be well engineered, that includes simulation and testing both for signal integrity and EMC. that dosn't always happen, penny piching and cheap cables that are not up to the job. And any one can put a CE sticker on their product with little worry of reprisals if they operate outside Europe. I have seen a container load of SMPS's sourced abroad go in the skip, as they when tested in house they failed EMC big time. The origional units sent worked perfectly. Its the same with HDMI cables, as there is now a market for them they apear everywhere, even in your local supermarket, how many of these are well engineered I wonder. With STAT and DVD's you are pushing the data throughput more, so a barley adequate cable may work for low bandwith, but when the pressure is on and the data throughput at maximum they cant handle it. The cable is big part of the transmission line, and has to be taken into considerations, todays simulation packages can simulate connectors and cable runs across multiple boards and units (MB to drives etc) and with high speed data transmission it is becoming more and more critical. Now if you want fun with a cable specify a length that just happens to be one quarter of the wavelength of the main system clock.
There is no dispute that bad cables will effect digital signal trasmission and cost cutting is prevelant in a lot of consumer goods.
A parallel example is graphics cards, at work I have a top of the range proffessional card, all drivers and hardware checked, tested and certified to work with the 3D CAD (Solidworks) and at work I may get a couple of crashes a week...at home on my basic PC with a standard card I get many more crashes. My home system is adequate for day to day use but when pushed falls down occasionaly.. Another problem with PC's is the ever increasing overheads Windows itself puts on the hardware
 
Old 12th January 2012, 01:53 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Now indeed, if there's some new sort of physics that has escaped the attention of large industries with much higher mission criticality but is evident to a group of audiophiles, then some evidence is needed. I rate that probability vanishingly low, but solid evidence triumphs preconception.
SY you are partly correct.

There is a solid reason to why there is a clear difference.

But the audiophiles have NO evidence as they simply dont know.
They have simply tested various solutions and their ears tell them that some materials sounds better than other.
 
Old 12th January 2012, 02:35 PM   #97
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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I'm intriged, what is the reason...
 
Old 12th January 2012, 03:18 PM   #98
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I'm intriged, what is the reason...
I was intrigued for 40 odd years when I studied the effects.

I think it will be common knowledge sooner or later,
but later may be the best guess.
 
Old 12th January 2012, 03:38 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by RayCtech View Post
I was intrigued for 40 odd years when I studied the effects.
May I ask about the effects and how they were verified to really exist? I know I am being harsh but IMO that is the most fundamental issue almost never tackled on audiophile forums. Do the effects really exist so that their causes should be investigated?
 
Old 12th January 2012, 03:44 PM   #100
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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So less of the esoteric and tell us what all the people doing the signal integrity software amongst others have missed since Oliver Heaviside first mused over Maxwells, treatise...
or is it a non electronic reason?
 

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