Oh...I didn't remove the 3 SMD components under the crystal!
Also, location #3...the gnd
Is that ground POWER for the oscillator, or is that the signal ground? I assume, looking at my clock, it's signal ground as my output has a - and a +
Well, there is a "victory" to have music...
I do not want disappoint you, but is not only to have music out of that board... But much better quality for the audio signal (music) than before, it may be the goal.
First, I want to suggest to you and others, that when is to be removed components from this PCB, one may not use heat gun. In such case one may risk to blow out some useful very small components, which may desolder at once from its pads. Just use a soldering iron and heat only that component to be removed. Heat it whole until it will desolder out, no mater it will be destroyed. Put the soldering iron with tin on it on that component, not only on its pads, warm it up and remove it. In this way one may prevent to heat too much the delicate pads on the board and destroy it.
Second, as I`ve wrote in the previous post, one may use a thin coax to transport the clock frequency from the oscillator PCB to the input point on the board. As you did with the red/black wires (also right connections) is just bead (sorry). You should mount your clock PCB with the clock output against the end of the board, to minimise so the length of the output connexions. There is not very important if the power connexions it may be longer, but is a must that the clock output should have shortest path, and it must be shielded connexion (coax). As you can see on that clock board, there is a place for a small BNC connector on it. That BNC connector it may be solder it on the board and used with a coax to output the clock signal, and directed to the clock input/GND pins...
And something else... I`m not very sure if is just right to use that +12v rail for your clock circuit. You should measure the current of the clock PCB, and care to not load too much the +12v rail which come from the switching PSU. Too much load on that rail it may increase the noise and/or unbalance the +/- 12v rails for the opamps... Maybe is better to just use 12v from Molex connector for your clock circuit...
I do not want disappoint you, but is not only to have music out of that board... But much better quality for the audio signal (music) than before, it may be the goal.
First, I want to suggest to you and others, that when is to be removed components from this PCB, one may not use heat gun. In such case one may risk to blow out some useful very small components, which may desolder at once from its pads. Just use a soldering iron and heat only that component to be removed. Heat it whole until it will desolder out, no mater it will be destroyed. Put the soldering iron with tin on it on that component, not only on its pads, warm it up and remove it. In this way one may prevent to heat too much the delicate pads on the board and destroy it.
Second, as I`ve wrote in the previous post, one may use a thin coax to transport the clock frequency from the oscillator PCB to the input point on the board. As you did with the red/black wires (also right connections) is just bead (sorry). You should mount your clock PCB with the clock output against the end of the board, to minimise so the length of the output connexions. There is not very important if the power connexions it may be longer, but is a must that the clock output should have shortest path, and it must be shielded connexion (coax). As you can see on that clock board, there is a place for a small BNC connector on it. That BNC connector it may be solder it on the board and used with a coax to output the clock signal, and directed to the clock input/GND pins...
And something else... I`m not very sure if is just right to use that +12v rail for your clock circuit. You should measure the current of the clock PCB, and care to not load too much the +12v rail which come from the switching PSU. Too much load on that rail it may increase the noise and/or unbalance the +/- 12v rails for the opamps... Maybe is better to just use 12v from Molex connector for your clock circuit...
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Thanks for the advise Coris...
I might just spin the clock PCB around to shorten up the leads.
For the desoldering, I used a flat "spoon" tip and was able to hit both sides of the pad at the same time. The SMD's came off right away...no harm.
When you say coax, you mean a shielded lead...? A coax is a two-lead wire, no...?
I have a terminal for the clock that (I think) is for a coax
This would run the - and + together to the STX...except the - and + are relatively far apart on the STX!
Maybe add a similar coax socket on the STX with very short unshielded leads to the solder joints for an improvement.
Edit: BCN connect, yes!!
I might just spin the clock PCB around to shorten up the leads.
For the desoldering, I used a flat "spoon" tip and was able to hit both sides of the pad at the same time. The SMD's came off right away...no harm.
When you say coax, you mean a shielded lead...? A coax is a two-lead wire, no...?
I have a terminal for the clock that (I think) is for a coax
This would run the - and + together to the STX...except the - and + are relatively far apart on the STX!
Maybe add a similar coax socket on the STX with very short unshielded leads to the solder joints for an improvement.
Edit: BCN connect, yes!!
Yes, this is the (BNC) thing! Just find the opposite sex for it with a coax on it and that`s it. Then it will be a proof approach... You will of course do not need the same in another end. There is to be soldered directly to the board. Else, you can just use a such coax and solder it directly on both ends. Actually the BNC connectors are meant when one may connect/disconnect the things frequently. Not your case...
BTW, coax is a shielded cable. One wire in the middle and the shield around on it as a tube over that central wire... A coaxial cable = two "wires" (ore more...) on the same axe... Like an old TV antenna cable, but quite thin for the purpose here.
BTW, coax is a shielded cable. One wire in the middle and the shield around on it as a tube over that central wire... A coaxial cable = two "wires" (ore more...) on the same axe... Like an old TV antenna cable, but quite thin for the purpose here.
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http://www.x2y.com/filters/TechDay0...log_Designs_Demand_GoodPCBLayouts _JohnWu.pdf
Page 38, you are creating a BIG split in the clocks return current.
Another way to look at it, EMC=Signal integrity (Signal integrity=lower jitter)
The 10 Best Ways to Maximize Emission from Your Product
Page 38, you are creating a BIG split in the clocks return current.
Another way to look at it, EMC=Signal integrity (Signal integrity=lower jitter)
The 10 Best Ways to Maximize Emission from Your Product
Yes, it is...
You may try now to increase the +/-12v rails to +/-15v. This is actually the normal level of the final opamps is supposing to work...
Very soon I will come out with a complete set/solution for the ST/STX mods:
- new DAC design (DAC module), with the ultimate low noise regulators on own board, and high performance digital isolators on digital lines.
- complete I/V and final opamps in a module with ultra low noise regulators on board.
- necessary PSU for the mod with Schottky bridges and automation start up circuitry. Only the AC transformers to be connected to it.
- battery powered clock module/board, with servo start up system, and battery charger on board.
This my configuration mod/modules it will be only attached to the ST/STX board, it will be completely isolated from the rest of the computer (signals/power), and no any other intervention it will be necessary on original board. Even the original DAC & analogue stage it will be functional in parallel with the added modules.
The production is on the way...
Ballanced True Differential as an Future Option ?
Hello Mr. Coris,
I have read on this thread about a modifications You did to a Xonar Essence STX Cards and I was amazed what You come
up after so many improvements, and a logical step I was expected - You did it . . .
You go a whole step further and design a whole new DAC Board with top notch design decisions and with top notch PSUs to serve the
purposes of a DAC Board.
As I have the same Audio card and my very good friend a Recording Eng. has the same one for his most home hobby LP Records music
capture - Converting a whole his long time collecting mostly Classical & Acoustic, Jazz & Ethno LP archive (some 3500 LPs) to 192Khz -32bit digital format.
A few Questions
1. Would it be a any time further an option to add to this or a never board also a the same level AD Converter Chip treated with all the same power supply goodies as is currently prepared for a DAC Chip ?
2. The most important thing of all of them Would it be possible a full Balanced differential from Input to output ?
3. Will this DAC have a direct native DSD 56x and 128x files playback support ?
4. Is it by any chance the DAC used a dual mono AD 1955 DACs ?
5. Would it be possible in to future to buffer the OP signal with gain + 6dB at least (Balanced if possible)
6. How would it be possible to order Yours current DAC Board and what is its price will be, will it be a diy project or full populated and tested board ?
I know this is a lot of questions but if those will be at least considered as an possible future add ons than this will become a recordings Engs. the best Audio DREAMs and will also apply to all PC AUDIO MEASURING Guys worldwide.
ASUS made an evolution to the ESSENCE III but lacking of a Balanced IP - AD Stage, this is a whole project targeted only to PC listening people.
If they'd integrate in the ESSENCE III also the same level of quality, also a Balanced AD IP stage then they'll hit a whole recording industry guys as well and theirs market would be much wider.
Dear Mr. Coris, please read this my mail sole as a my and my fiends heavens wishes only and if You hear them and reconsider our heavens wishes any time in the future than we'll be in heaven together.
With my best warm wishes to You,
Andreas
Hello Mr. Coris,
I have read on this thread about a modifications You did to a Xonar Essence STX Cards and I was amazed what You come
up after so many improvements, and a logical step I was expected - You did it . . .
You go a whole step further and design a whole new DAC Board with top notch design decisions and with top notch PSUs to serve the
purposes of a DAC Board.
As I have the same Audio card and my very good friend a Recording Eng. has the same one for his most home hobby LP Records music
capture - Converting a whole his long time collecting mostly Classical & Acoustic, Jazz & Ethno LP archive (some 3500 LPs) to 192Khz -32bit digital format.
A few Questions
1. Would it be a any time further an option to add to this or a never board also a the same level AD Converter Chip treated with all the same power supply goodies as is currently prepared for a DAC Chip ?
2. The most important thing of all of them Would it be possible a full Balanced differential from Input to output ?
3. Will this DAC have a direct native DSD 56x and 128x files playback support ?
4. Is it by any chance the DAC used a dual mono AD 1955 DACs ?
5. Would it be possible in to future to buffer the OP signal with gain + 6dB at least (Balanced if possible)
6. How would it be possible to order Yours current DAC Board and what is its price will be, will it be a diy project or full populated and tested board ?
I know this is a lot of questions but if those will be at least considered as an possible future add ons than this will become a recordings Engs. the best Audio DREAMs and will also apply to all PC AUDIO MEASURING Guys worldwide.
ASUS made an evolution to the ESSENCE III but lacking of a Balanced IP - AD Stage, this is a whole project targeted only to PC listening people.
If they'd integrate in the ESSENCE III also the same level of quality, also a Balanced AD IP stage then they'll hit a whole recording industry guys as well and theirs market would be much wider.
Dear Mr. Coris, please read this my mail sole as a my and my fiends heavens wishes only and if You hear them and reconsider our heavens wishes any time in the future than we'll be in heaven together.
With my best warm wishes to You,
Andreas
Hi Smiley 09
I will try to answer to the questions.
I have actually thought that the ADC stage of the board it were ignored so far. It may not be difficult to improve this stage too. So yes, I will take a closer look on ADC in the near future (after the initial mod it will be implemented and running).
On actual mod, it is quite easy to take the balanced signal out connecting it further to an balanced amp. There is a little problem to implement a complete balanced option, because the limited place on computer bracket. I planed and designed this mod to be on BNC unbalanced out, mounted on a dedicated bracket. But it is not difficult at all to take out the balanced signals on wires. I will think to a more proper way to solve this problem.
This new designed DAC it will use the existent hardware/software of the initial board. ST/STX are not per today able to process natively DSD files. The eventual coded DSD are converted on the fly to PCM. The DAC chip is for the time the same as the original (PCM 1792), as it have to use the same digital interface from the original board. I have plans to use another DAC chips in a next developed version of this mod. I can say that the audio results are so far (on my prototype circuit, using PCM1792), better than I could get from a ES9018 DAC...
But as Sabre DAC it is actually an evolute/better design in this audio field, it will be interesting to use it for this mod too. So, to be continued...
Yes, I have too the intention to use a dual mono configuration, but I can not say right now what type of DAC it will be used. The PCM 17xx family it have very good figures/parameters, and a dual mono configuration using these chips it is already on the plans... But the final decision is not taken yet.
The commercial part of this approach it may be of course clarified afterwords, when everything it will be working and well implemented.
Yes, it will be a fully populated, manual soldered and tested mod. To get the most out of this mod it is necessary a customized mounting process for the involved components. This it will increase both the quality of the outputted audio, as the price of the construction. I will come with necessary details at the right time. I can say for now that it may not be quite cheap... for a exceptional quality at least...
The mod is modular designed, and is completely electrical isolated from the rest of the computer.
There is the DAC board, the I/V and final board, the PSU board, and the clock battery power system board. These boards are to be quite easy connected together, are the smallest as possible, and it fit well enough the original ST/STX soundcard, as the standard tight place inside the computer. The mod system is to be only connected to a small toroid transformer which it can deliver 2x7, and 2x18vAC at no more than 0,5A.
The modular design it were meant to give the opportunity that individual modules it can be used in another devices, than only dedicated to this mod. F, ex. the battery powered clocks board, the I/V & final stage, and/or the PSU board it may be used on another customized devices, mod, etc.
I do hope that the above answers it may give a better image about this (soon) coming approach...
I will try to answer to the questions.
I have actually thought that the ADC stage of the board it were ignored so far. It may not be difficult to improve this stage too. So yes, I will take a closer look on ADC in the near future (after the initial mod it will be implemented and running).
On actual mod, it is quite easy to take the balanced signal out connecting it further to an balanced amp. There is a little problem to implement a complete balanced option, because the limited place on computer bracket. I planed and designed this mod to be on BNC unbalanced out, mounted on a dedicated bracket. But it is not difficult at all to take out the balanced signals on wires. I will think to a more proper way to solve this problem.
This new designed DAC it will use the existent hardware/software of the initial board. ST/STX are not per today able to process natively DSD files. The eventual coded DSD are converted on the fly to PCM. The DAC chip is for the time the same as the original (PCM 1792), as it have to use the same digital interface from the original board. I have plans to use another DAC chips in a next developed version of this mod. I can say that the audio results are so far (on my prototype circuit, using PCM1792), better than I could get from a ES9018 DAC...
But as Sabre DAC it is actually an evolute/better design in this audio field, it will be interesting to use it for this mod too. So, to be continued...
Yes, I have too the intention to use a dual mono configuration, but I can not say right now what type of DAC it will be used. The PCM 17xx family it have very good figures/parameters, and a dual mono configuration using these chips it is already on the plans... But the final decision is not taken yet.
The commercial part of this approach it may be of course clarified afterwords, when everything it will be working and well implemented.
Yes, it will be a fully populated, manual soldered and tested mod. To get the most out of this mod it is necessary a customized mounting process for the involved components. This it will increase both the quality of the outputted audio, as the price of the construction. I will come with necessary details at the right time. I can say for now that it may not be quite cheap... for a exceptional quality at least...
The mod is modular designed, and is completely electrical isolated from the rest of the computer.
There is the DAC board, the I/V and final board, the PSU board, and the clock battery power system board. These boards are to be quite easy connected together, are the smallest as possible, and it fit well enough the original ST/STX soundcard, as the standard tight place inside the computer. The mod system is to be only connected to a small toroid transformer which it can deliver 2x7, and 2x18vAC at no more than 0,5A.
The modular design it were meant to give the opportunity that individual modules it can be used in another devices, than only dedicated to this mod. F, ex. the battery powered clocks board, the I/V & final stage, and/or the PSU board it may be used on another customized devices, mod, etc.
I do hope that the above answers it may give a better image about this (soon) coming approach...
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BALLANCED I/O Brackets
My idea is to used Two close unused Brackets as a Hardware Supporters with a board fasteners in between at the same time what I mean is this:
The new main board should be full size like the size of the STX card itself with the all PSU modules attached via piggy back on top/bottom exactly where they're needed.
This way it is available the full PCB Board size (4 layers min) to the new Digital & Analogue NewComers - AD Section - a Dual Mono (AKM AK5386VT ADC 123db @ DinRange) & Dual Mono (AD1955 DAC 123db @ DinRange) - (They are both the best Natural Sounding Chips currently Avail - But They aren't the HiEnd as the current soulless fashion is dictated a HiEnd to be) they should be placed in the most inner beginning of the PCB board following the all necessary I/V conversion and finally the I/Ps - OPs buffers toward the exit to a brackets which each of them can support for one channel standard 5mm Shielded stereo TRS female connectors - each bracket can hold comfortable 4 such a female connectors which can be directly soldered to the main PCB Board which elecrtr. connections should relate to the top of the analogue exit board - should carry eg. L CH analogue IP/S - OP/S -eg. LCH Bal. Line Out + LCH Bal. Line IN + LCH Bal HeadPh. OP the same can be applied for the Lower Bracket for the RCH.. Both Brackets should hardware support the main PCB Board and also as the additional Alu or better 0.8 mm Cu - Cooper shield-ing to the whole PCB so only exits provided would be for the shielded interconnections to the main STX board.
I will Consider the use the same Headphone OPs chips as they used in the XONAR ESSENCE ONE but will add an additional pair or for the ultimate then here is more about the best sound-vise acceptable headphone balanced option without any ''HighEnd'' unobtanium Tibetan Monks blessed parts....
Sound Cards and Digital-to-Analog Converters - Essence III
to NATIVE Directly SUPPORT BALANCED drive for the AKG701, HD650 or even better the HD800 headphones if used, but this feed would also directly support any longer Bal. Interconnect cables feeding any Active Studio Monitors in any Rec. Studio at the highest possible audio quality
I know this is a lot of things to consider but if all goodies will be put together than this isn't only related to STX mods but if latter added only the USB synchronous interface and it'l become a top notch whole portable solution for the Laptops and many other applications also.
Quite a bit for to tough-consider how to proceed but it is worth to take some time and make the most suable logical decision even to think of the future add ons if not implemented in the very beginning but will be realized in a latter time and be added to the final design in the evolutionary progress.
I hope You'll take some breath and at least consider all the possibilities with possible adventures . . .
With my best warm regards
Andreas
Hi Smiley 09
I will try to answer to the questions.
I have actually thought that the ADC stage of the board it were ignored so far. It may not be difficult to improve this stage too. So yes, I will take a closer look on ADC in the near future (after the initial mod it will be implemented and running).
@ Thank You for taking this into consideration
On actual mod, it is quite easy to take the balanced signal out connecting it further to an balanced amp. There is a little problem to implement a complete balanced option, because the limited place on computer bracket. I planed and designed this mod to be on BNC unbalanced out, mounted on a dedicated bracket. But it is not difficult at all to take out the balanced signals on wires. I will think to a more proper way to solve this problem....
My idea is to used Two close unused Brackets as a Hardware Supporters with a board fasteners in between at the same time what I mean is this:
The new main board should be full size like the size of the STX card itself with the all PSU modules attached via piggy back on top/bottom exactly where they're needed.
This way it is available the full PCB Board size (4 layers min) to the new Digital & Analogue NewComers - AD Section - a Dual Mono (AKM AK5386VT ADC 123db @ DinRange) & Dual Mono (AD1955 DAC 123db @ DinRange) - (They are both the best Natural Sounding Chips currently Avail - But They aren't the HiEnd as the current soulless fashion is dictated a HiEnd to be) they should be placed in the most inner beginning of the PCB board following the all necessary I/V conversion and finally the I/Ps - OPs buffers toward the exit to a brackets which each of them can support for one channel standard 5mm Shielded stereo TRS female connectors - each bracket can hold comfortable 4 such a female connectors which can be directly soldered to the main PCB Board which elecrtr. connections should relate to the top of the analogue exit board - should carry eg. L CH analogue IP/S - OP/S -eg. LCH Bal. Line Out + LCH Bal. Line IN + LCH Bal HeadPh. OP the same can be applied for the Lower Bracket for the RCH.. Both Brackets should hardware support the main PCB Board and also as the additional Alu or better 0.8 mm Cu - Cooper shield-ing to the whole PCB so only exits provided would be for the shielded interconnections to the main STX board.
I will Consider the use the same Headphone OPs chips as they used in the XONAR ESSENCE ONE but will add an additional pair or for the ultimate then here is more about the best sound-vise acceptable headphone balanced option without any ''HighEnd'' unobtanium Tibetan Monks blessed parts....
Sound Cards and Digital-to-Analog Converters - Essence III
to NATIVE Directly SUPPORT BALANCED drive for the AKG701, HD650 or even better the HD800 headphones if used, but this feed would also directly support any longer Bal. Interconnect cables feeding any Active Studio Monitors in any Rec. Studio at the highest possible audio quality
I know this is a lot of things to consider but if all goodies will be put together than this isn't only related to STX mods but if latter added only the USB synchronous interface and it'l become a top notch whole portable solution for the Laptops and many other applications also.
Quite a bit for to tough-consider how to proceed but it is worth to take some time and make the most suable logical decision even to think of the future add ons if not implemented in the very beginning but will be realized in a latter time and be added to the final design in the evolutionary progress.
I hope You'll take some breath and at least consider all the possibilities with possible adventures . . .
With my best warm regards
Andreas
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