x-fi elite pro starting to distort .. failing capacitor?

[anwaypasible]

my x-fi elite pro has been growing weak over the past few months.
i used to be able to have the master volume at 79% without any distortion.
now, whenever some loud bass plays.. the bass causes the entire frequency spectrum to distort.
if i turn the master volume down to 40% .. the distortion isnt heard anymore.
i can lower any volume to reduce the distortion though.. could be the preamp in the soundcard equalizer, or the volume in the audio player.

so, i am thinking a capacitor has gone bad and causing the other capacitors to work hard to fill the void (known as amplifier collapse i believe)

i took the soundcard out to look for a leaking capacitor or a broken solder joint.. i didnt see either one.

i dont know how to test a capacitor, so i am not going to be removing each one to test it.
with that said, i am wondering if anybody has come across the same problem and know what capacitor is known to fail.

maybe it is the capacitor suggested to be replaced with a bigger one as the 'x-fi hot rod modification'
or if it is one of those capacitors in the large group of caps.

i've emailed creative about it and asked how much it would cost to have it repaired.. but i am also wondering if i can save some money and solder in a new piece.


i am actually really confused, because the analog output distorts AND the s/pdif output distorts.
apparently that means the dac is getting enough power to do its job then.
and if the spdif signal is distorting.. i wonder if my soundcard has a data virus or if there is an actual voltage level problem.
i dont know if s/pdif uses voltage increase and decrease as a way to increase/decrease the volume.
i suppose it could work if/when the data signal is the same pattern regardless of voltage level used to transport the data.


i switched to the realtek HD onboard soundcard of the motherboard and it worked fine.
i've noticed the bass growing increasingly weaker.
now i have to use the equalizer to boost 31hz AND the THX setup console to boost 28hz
both of those are at maximum so i can hear some bass that even becomes to match the vocals.
before, i was able to pour out 25hz from my two twelves without much problem at all.
30hz area was louder than 25hz .. but 30hz area is low and stubborn too.


i dont want to purchase a replacement and perform the 'x-fi hot rod modification' if/when the capacitor is not the problem.
so i know its best to not fool around with it.
the reason i became curious is because the 'x-fi hot rod modification' said the new capacitor would make the bass stronger and more defined.
it is the bass that the soundcard is struggling with.. i put two and two together and i'm wondering if it is that exact capacitor that has become problematic.


i know there are quite a few people on this forum that build their own amplifiers, and i am hoping someone like that could help.

what do you think?
is it a software virus on/inside the card.. a bad capacitor.. and if so, which one?

would a cheap radio shack capacitor work as a temporary solution to test the jamicon 'power supply' capacitor?
i dont need the frustration of the capacitor being the wrong resistance, despite the voltage and farad rating.

[phofman]

If the spdif output distorts in exactly the same way, then either the data path introduces somehow nonlinearities (which is weird), or your amplifier/speakers are at fault (I guess more likely).

[anwaypasible]

hi..
the s/pdif doesnt distort exactly the same.
i hear lots of tin and shreaking when the spdif distorts.
its not the same, its like an over amplification distortion with some parts clear and other parts garbled.

the analog output is absolutely normal until the bass hits.
i can listen to classic rock and turn the volume back up because there isnt any bass like the hiphop tracks.
but i can still here some flaky response in the midrange if i push the volume up too much while listening to rock.
same can be said with hiphop when there isnt any bass at the moment.
its like an old analog audio effect of distortion, but very mild.
(i'm thinking of a guitar pedal or some midi analog distortion)

when the s/pdif distorts, i can almost hear it shuffling.. thanks to some parts being clear and other pieces of the frequency response being garbled.

the speaker's and amp are okay.. i've used the other soundcard to triple check.

but, something i took notice to after posting.. i have turned the volume down so hiphop tracks dont distort, but i am still experiencing some crackling in the midrange of the right speaker mostly (but sometimes the left does it too).

it's weird.. because i've heard it earlier today before my original post, but i thought it was the song.
alas, i've heard it on more than one track.. and that is unusual.


i've actually been watching a few movies last month, and the s/pdif didnt show any signs of distortion.
today i switched from analog to digital output and the audio from spdif was distorting.
and i am absolutely certain i havent had any issues with the s/pdif prior to today.. because in the back of my mind, i had it set that i would simply use the soundcard with s/pdif output until i get it fixed.

i went into the bios and turned on the onboard soundcard, then installed the drivers after the operating system booted up.
because the second soundcard is installed and powered on.. i wonder if it caused the s/pdif to distort.
it really makes me think there is a data problem rather than a circuit problem.

i havent tried to replicate the s/pdif distortion again just yet, because it hurt to hear the soundcard underperforming using a second method of use.

i'll uninstall the onboard soundcard and disable it in the bios, then try to replicate the s/pdif distortion again.
i havent been able to change the volume output when using s/pdif.. so i dont know how or if the volume was increased.

i seem to be hearing some details i havent heard before.. and that makes me think the capacitor bank has the capacitors in parallel (maybe series) and the weak cap is causing a tighter grab (faster slew rate) while also sucking up power from other capacitors, causing the distortion.

funny, i dont have any experience with hands on building circuits.
i do it all in my head, and what i am leaning towards seems perfectly logical.
i would love to hear someone elaborate.

see, i know series and parallel because of speakers.
wiring a speaker in series can slow the slew rate output if/when the speaker isnt designed to pass along in series connection.
(like having lots of carpet and upholstery in a room to absorb some of the room echoes)

i dont know what a dac sounds like when it is starved of electricity.. but i know the dac is like a speaker, so i suppose it is possible that the electricity on the circuit board is crippled, and when i turn it up the capacitors simply dont have enough power to provide for everything.
so, maybe it is the dac being starved.. or maybe it is the processor being starved and injecting something into the workflow as you said.


i know i am having a tough time over here..
- my car's valve seals are leaking so bad that the engine is getting hydrolocked because there is too much oil in the piston cylinder.
- my clothes have been washed so many times they are starting to rip and lose buttons
- i flipped a circuit breaker so the apartment maintenance guy could install a new electrical outlet for the air conditioner (old one was 2 prong, upgraded to 3 prong)
well i forgot to turn the television off, and when i flipped the circuit breaker back on it gave me a blink code indicating the power supply was shot.
- a few months ago my kitchen sink was overflowing with water because the drain was clogged somewhere.. the sink overflowed and there was water everywhere in the kitchen.
- we have had rain for the past two months straight, and the basement i live in started to have water come up from the ground.
spent three or four days with standing water all over my living room.
i sleep on the floor with a pile of blankets, and one of the places water was coming up was directly under the blankets.
i would suck up the water with a vacuum, and the water came back in less than 2 minutes.
i had to dump the water resevoir probably two dozen times.
- because of the rain, i havent been able to install the new headgasket and valve seals i bought two months ago.
- i found out today that my prescription drug insurance stopped accepting my medication.
- i've been trying to get a job and the agency has been procrastinating for about 2 months now already.
(could always use the money to fix some of these things that are breaking before me)
- about 4 or 5 months ago, my CRT computer monitor starting flickering at me and showed signs of failure in the very near future.
- my cat died about 3 months ago.
- i lost everything i own because my mother didnt pay the storage unit fee.
(i managed to grab some clothes and my computer and my radio, thats it)
- my usb 'gaming-grade' mouse died last month.
- my usb ports started going out one by one about 6 months ago.
- my dvd player/burner has been refusing to read discs.
- i'm paying for internet and digital cable, and there is nothing on either one of 'em.. but i continue to pay for it each month because i dont want to stare at a wall all alone.
- my car was in THREE accidents in one month (all of them while my car was parked)
- i've realized i have been visiting a doctor since age 6 (22 years now) and i am unhappy with the results.
- my calibration microphone fell off my lap and broke.
- i also lost all my toys from my childhood in a 2nd storage unit, they were lost at the same time i lost my most recent belongings.
- i was homeless for the entire winter of 2009 up until the middle of spring 2010.
- my mother and my dog are living with my uncle, and i hate his existance.. so i cant visit.
- my mother has been really mean to me for the last 10 years.
- i've had my trust and good name rejected in court when i was attacked and issued a restraining order in favor for the attacker.
- i've been harassed and arrested by hostile police, and my trust and good name was again rejected in court.
- i tried to make some friends with a few people that let me sleep in their business parking lot, and those attempts where ignored and neglected.
- been thrown out of bars because of confusion and lack of communication.
- tried to tell the cops about my neighbor who has been coughing and gagging and puking on the floor for the past 5 months, they told me to get out and dont come back.. again getting my trust and good name abused.
- spent 57 days in jail waiting to be found innocent or guilty. tried to plead and wasnt heard, again my trust and good name was abused.
- been trying to play multiplayer video games on the computer only to find out each and every single one has cheaters that ruin the fun every time i sign on to play.
- the xxx and chat websites have ignored me and gone down in quality over the past year.
- been trying to talk to some tattoo artists i went to school with to have some serious discussion about my going to college and using them to draw concept art, but they dont even read the emails.

its kinda stupid for me to list all of this here.. but i didnt intend on trying to fill the list full.
i'm gonna put it on my blog though.. sounds like i am doomed and cursed.

i need this stupid soundcard to work a chance at saving my life

[anwaypasible]

i uninstalled the other soundcard like i said i was going to do.
i found out how to replicate the s/pdif output distortion by switching to audio creation mode.
there are much more volume controls in that audio mode, and i found out the s/pdif output volume is controlled by the multi-channel wave section, with the 'wave' volume slider being the one to control the output volume.

that volume slider wasnt on +12dB causing the problem.. nope, it was at 0.0
if i raise that volume, the s/pdif output distorts.
i can clearly tell the soundcard has a faster reaction time (or hold?) on the audio.
things like acid bass sound much more clearer and detailed.
i used timbalands 'give it to me' to hear the acid bass.

the bass isnt the only thing that causes distortion, because i heard some bass that didnt distort at all.
vocals distort even when there isnt any bass.
it's all about how long the soundwave is.
like, i heard some short bursts of bass in the upper frequencies that didnt cause distortion.
i heard the longer soundwaves of the lower bass that did distort.
the female would 'sing' and stretch the duration of her vocal chords, and there was distortion.
but when she was 'talking' there wasnt any distortion.

i guess that means the 'harmonics' are causing distortion AND the existance of the bass also falls into the category of being victimized by depleated current.

i wonder two things:
1. am i really hearing distortion in the midrange when i lower the volume to try and eliminate the distortion.
2. if the problem began, is it going to get worse?


i am a little bit afraid to try and replace any of the capacitors, because i dont know if my solder is the same resistance (needed) for the circuit to be safe/healthy.

it would be great to repair this soundcard and increase its slew rate at the same time.
but..
i've noticed the midrange is louder because of the faster slew rate.
(really ruined my calibrated frequency response, and i dont have a microphone to calibrate it again)


i'm still thinking it is a virus though, because if i use kernel streaming.. the distortion isnt all that bad if i turn it down, but if i switch to directsound.. the distortion is constant, regardless of what the volume is set at.

but..
i think i just heard the distortion get worse, because i played a song by neo 'because of you'
the normal volume that usually doesnt distort with hip hop music is now distorting.

i'm thinking maybe i need to reinstall the operating system.

[anwaypasible]

apparently it was that song only.. i switched to asio output and it was still distorting like kernel streaming was.

then i switched to 'bit-exact' playback and i could turn the master volume knob up all the way (maybe because the equalizer was turned off?)
but
if i slide the volume knob up to +12 .. it distorts again.


um....
if it was a hardware issue, wouldnt all of the songs distort roughly the same?
i'm wondering if reinstalling the operating system is going to fix anything at all.

[anwaypasible]

this is getting stupid faster than i can put a handle on it.

i tried to 'repair' the operating system with the installation disc.
upon booting into the freshly repaired operating system, an nvidia driver consistently caused a computer crash.
so i was forced to erase the hard drive and reinstall the operating system.

now, here i am on the freshly installed operating system and the drivers wont install.
i tried the latest version on the creative website.
the screen said 'installing new windows drivers.. this may take a minute'
and after about 3 minutes the screen asked me if i wanted to reboot.
i rebooted and nothing was installed.
no creative applications
no drivers
...i tried again and got the same results.

next i tried to install the drivers from the installation CD that came with the soundcard.
the applications where installed, but the drivers didnt install.
i seen drivers in a folder location, so i tried to force windows to install the drivers by searching for the drivers manually.
this made a bunch of 'microsoft' this and that come up in the notification tray area.
the device manager said 'this device cannot start (code 10)'

so i downloaded an alternative x-fi driver from here: Get the latest X-fi Pax Drivers here
these installed the driver (got the 'this driver isnt digitally signed' popup finally.. indicating the driver installation was working.
but, again, i got the error in device manager saying 'this device cannot start (code 10)'

next, i used 'driver sweeper' from phyxion.net to remove all instances of the creative drivers.
reinstalled the 'pax alternative' drivers.
i am still seeing 'this device cannot start (code 10)' in the device manager.


to make matters worse, i finally got an email reply from creative.
there was NOTHING inside except 'please remember, the more information you provide.. the better we can assist you'

i scroll down and all of the information fields i filled out were blank.
i asked who or how did my description get erased.
there was a detailed description of what was going on when i clicked the 'submit' button.
i went on to speak of the problem again (as if it is good for my health) .


now, i have lost pictures and files i had no intention of deleting.. all because the 'repair' of the operating system didnt work.
the soundcard was working before i reinstalled the operating system (with the volume extra low), and now it doesnt work at all.


i read on microsoft.com 'code 10 is a generic message for when the driver reports an error that is not listed in the list of errors.'
it goes on to say 'the driver could be corrupted.. or it could be a hardware problem'
i've done all of the steps listed suggested by microsoft except the last one 'replace the hardware'


so here i am again asking about a capacitor.
if i can test the capacitor myself and replace the thing for like $10 .. i would jump on the chance.

[anwaypasible]

i switched PCI slots and had nothing connected
- no audio outputs
- no external console

the driver finally installed, as i was happy to hear the click of the relay on the soundcard.
i'm still getting some distortion though.
i'm using the PAX modified drivers for the soundcard.
the distortion isnt the same this time, i hear clicks/pops in the audio.
the driver defaults at 79% and it was fine when the equalizer wasnt set.
i did the equalizer and all seemed well.
i went into the THX setup console to add the 12dB boost at 28hz that i used for EQ calibration and some distortion came back.
it wasnt as much, but i turned the knob to 50% to make it go away.

well.. at 50% i am still hearing some clicks/pops
and it doesnt distort always when the bass hits.. it only clicks/pops when the bass punches.

something isnt getting power.
i'm willing to swap out a capacitor to fill in the power, if somebody could tell me what value i need.
i'm thinking about replacing the power supply filter.. unless somebody can tell me otherwise.

the x-fi mod suggests using a blackgate 2200uF 16v capacitor.
but last i read, those caps arent in production anymore.
i know i dont know how much boost i need, and i also know i have no idea if the power filter is close enough to lift the cripple.
i dont want to run lots of extra power across the circuit board and put stress on something along the way.

i'm hoping somebody can tell me if it would even begin to be safe to raise a crippled cap from the power filter location.
and if i assume one cap went bad, how many volts do i need to lift it (or how many volts is safe for an improvement even?)

[anwaypasible]

umm...

i started to try and read about how to test a capacitor and i read something called 'adaptive esr'

i can only think of two ways the capacitor would fail:
1. the capacitor dried up and is open
2. the capacitor dried up and is shorted
(i know, capacitors can leak too.. but i dont see any leaks)

can a capacitor decay to a point where the voltage is witheld and the output is actually extra?
because i dont want to add more power to a circuit that is already producing more power than it should.

i got the 'hunch' here:
A Simple Way To Test Capacitors.

it says..
'One more failure mode of capacitors is to develop a series resistance. This is abbreviated ESR which stands for effective series resistance. This failure mode is difficult to test for using simple equipment such as is being discussed in this article. It happens much more often to electrolytic than to plastic film capacitors. In a power supply it will manifest itself as increased ripple in the power supply but the capacitor will test good using the technique described on this page.'

a ripple is when the current exits the cap right?
i'm thinking the cap might work in an oscillation, and if the cap says 'i will wait and go next time'
then the output could be more right?

would extra output cause the distortion.. or would it cause increased heat?

i read on the x-fi mod discussion, changing the power filter cap can also help improve the s/pdif output.
if that is true, i am having s/pdif output distortion as well as analog output distortion.
so by putting two and two together.. the power filter cap being replaced could help?
i dont want to murder the DAC by using it with a problem.. if it is the DAC that i hear cracking/popping.

the modification discussion said a soundcard is simply a digital sound processor, a digital to analog convertor, and an amplifier stage.
i have tried to read some of the posts on here before, about how an amplifier needs power (whether it be the voltage rail for transistors or a step-up transformer or power conditioners to filter the power feeding the amp)

maybe it is my ignorance and hope that i am zooming in on the situation as somewhat simple, when it might be more complicated.

wikipedia said black gates havent been in production since 2006
and i am seeing black gates on ebay for as much as $70 for one capacitor.

i read the mod discussion and people where saying to couple the caps.
now if i am not stupid, that means the caps are in series and are being placed in parallel to include the capacitive charge, but do it tighter by shorting the caps.
somebody told me it is the slew rate of an amplifier that says how close of a hold the electricity has on the audio signal (meaning the esr will be better seen).
so if the bad capacitor is shorted, why cant i use what ever little power is left.. or even the fact that there is a short in the capacitor group.. to help tighten the hold of the audio signal?

doesnt it mean to 'touch the audio signal quickly and apply your boost immediately'
compared to..
'touch the audio signal when you receive it and apply your boost as soon as possible'

i know how speakers work.. and if you wire up a bunch of speakers in series, the output is gonna droop like a long rope bridge.
but if you wire them all in parallel.. the bridge is going to be tight like a steel and concrete bridge with no droop.

i'm not saying raising the bridge wont cause some distortion when using capacitors ment to be drooping like a rope bridge.
but if one spot in the middle is supported and raised, doesnt that make the bridge less flimsy??


i really cant afford to go to college to fix this soundcard.
and i cant afford to drive 30 miles to pay $50 for somebody to look at it.
i'm also nervous about asking them about an upgrade to improve the audio quality.
i dont know if they are in a license and forbidden to tell me any information.. which might mean they are forbidden to upgrade something when the customer is knowingly seeking such an upgrade.

i just dont know enough.. and i'm a little hurt to think people are not allowed to learn and share amongst eachother as a hobby.

i've seen posts where people are pointing out where something was done wrong.
or
people are suggesting which component to use.
but
i havent read much about upgrades and modifying.
(maybe i havent lurked the forums often enough?)

i'm hoping somebody can help.. i can teach you how to calibrate some reverb !
i've posted it on my blog and on tomshardware forum.
i think it sucks everything is in secret because people want to make money doing it.
i would post it out in public and say it until i am tired of saying it.. then i would charge people who are too lazy to do it themselves.
i realize some people pay because the person willing to do it already has the test equipment, therefore its easier and cheaper to allow another person to do the task.
i just cant afford to pay for a repair, and i am uncertain of what will come when i ask for an upgrade.
does the upgrade get very minor treatment to keep them from replacing something that also needs upgraded to go higher?
or
is the person willing to go up to what the majority of the circuit can take, and really astonish the person who was looking for an upgrade?

sure, if i keep staring at electronics for the next 30-50 years.. i might be able to build a circuit myself.
but.. i stopped after i grew extremely bored with wiring light bulbs to batteries in science class.
i wanted more details then, and i have always looked deeper into anything i can.

[anwaypasible]

i forgot to do a very important test that could/should probably help us both.

i switched the output to the rear speakers to see if the distortion was still there.
the distortion IS still there, but i can turn the volume up significantly more.

i also forgot to mention, these clicks/pops from the front speakers are heard with the volume all the way down to 30% or lower.
when i switch to the rear speakers, i can turn the volume up to 70% and hear no distortion or clicks.

i expect somebody to know where to look now.
algebra does it, and i have provided some variables.

**edit**

crap.. i just found out i was listening with cmss 3D set to stereo xpand.
when i switched it to stereo surround and put the slider to 50% .. it is the same exact distortion.

[frenzic]

Just a tip. After you have installed your os, you can make an image of the drive. I use dos and driveimage2002 to do that. That way you never need driverwipecrap and it saves you lots of time. Another tip. Get rid of any creative software and only install drivers. Third one. If you really need an equalizer use a real one so your output levels source wise can stay true to the signal. That would rule out some suspect settings. You could also be suffering from a shared interrupt, check your bios prior to making one final install.