So. What you're saying is you run the NAIM DAC and you do experience
a different performance of that device if modifiying the Touch? Is that correct?
According to NAIM marketing this should not be the case!
If you talk about differences on coax vs. Toslink. In what direction?
Let see if I can get access to such a device to see by myself how it performs.
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Soundcheck,
Yes. Things changes, at least from my experience:
1) FLAC decoded @ NAS --> More laid back, but slightly less defined
2) FLAC decoded @ SQT --> More forward, a lot more definition and clarity
3) NAS w/ 128MB RAM (Synology CS 407) --> can't even play in a continuous manner (so I doubt Naim DAC buffers the entire song)
4) Soundcheck mods 2.0 (everything except screen off) --> darker background, tighter bass, etc
5) Soundcheck mods (screen off) --> sounds a lot more relaxed
6) Cambridge Audio BD650 Coax out vs. SQT --> Cambridge Audio transport more musical and smoother (the highs feels like "screaming")
Further on #6, I believe some of the factors below will make SQT better than the CD transport:
1) Coax vs. TOSLINK (my dealer said Naim DAC works best with a Audioquest Optilink5 when connected to a Mac) - not sure if this is the case for a Squeezebox
2) Linear Power Supply
3) Rack - my gears are all living together in a small rack, which I believe a lot of interference is going on at the back. Might need to get a bigger rack to house them
Anyone could help me with the following:
1) is SQT better with a TOSLINK out or Coax?
2) Which linear power supply is the best?
Cheers,
Edwin
3) If Coax were better than TOSLINK,
Yes. Things changes, at least from my experience:
1) FLAC decoded @ NAS --> More laid back, but slightly less defined
2) FLAC decoded @ SQT --> More forward, a lot more definition and clarity
3) NAS w/ 128MB RAM (Synology CS 407) --> can't even play in a continuous manner (so I doubt Naim DAC buffers the entire song)
4) Soundcheck mods 2.0 (everything except screen off) --> darker background, tighter bass, etc
5) Soundcheck mods (screen off) --> sounds a lot more relaxed
6) Cambridge Audio BD650 Coax out vs. SQT --> Cambridge Audio transport more musical and smoother (the highs feels like "screaming")
Further on #6, I believe some of the factors below will make SQT better than the CD transport:
1) Coax vs. TOSLINK (my dealer said Naim DAC works best with a Audioquest Optilink5 when connected to a Mac) - not sure if this is the case for a Squeezebox
2) Linear Power Supply
3) Rack - my gears are all living together in a small rack, which I believe a lot of interference is going on at the back. Might need to get a bigger rack to house them
Anyone could help me with the following:
1) is SQT better with a TOSLINK out or Coax?
2) Which linear power supply is the best?
Cheers,
Edwin
3) If Coax were better than TOSLINK,
Hmmh. Thx for the feedback. "All my hope is gone". The NAIM device
seems to respond to the transport tuning as sensitive as most of the
devices.
From what I read. The NAIM won't store an entire file. (Which actually would be the best solution of all - Bert Doppenberg BD-DESIGN did it some time ago on one of his DAC devices) The NAIM uses a ring buffer.
Screaming highs. OK. Some pages earlier somebody mentioned a similar
experience. As far as I recall in his case this went away when tweaking the ethernet. He installed the hub and added a better PS to it. The PS did
the trick in his case.
I experienced that beside the ethernet also my SPDIF link was causing
slight problems on the highs. I solved it by adding a pulsetransformer on the DAC input and some more little optimizations on that SPDIF link. I do hope that the NAIM comes with transformers on the input.
Things are getting complicated - I know.
For the "real" DIY folks over here: You might want to read this thread of how to get IS2 properly tapped off. Though watch out.
There are also some traps with such an approach. As the guy mentioned
there is a. no galvanical isolation in place and b. the timing/clocking of your DAC clock needs to be carefully tuned. I do think that this approach in general is the best approach. No idea why nobody builts such a thing.
Cheers
P.S: I prefer COAX over Toslink ( I own a Van den Hul Optocopler II). Since I have my pulsetranformer etc. in place coax IMO performs much better. But as I said. I consider it a receiver issue not to be able to cope with the different jitter or other distortions associated to each of those interfaces.
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KandKaudio had developed a solution for the Touch. It uses an HDMI cable
K&K Audio / Lundahl Transformers - Logitech Touch I2S digital output mod complete! - KevinC - February 06, 2011 at 14:03:39
K&K Audio / Lundahl Transformers - Logitech Touch I2S digital output mod complete! - KevinC - February 06, 2011 at 14:03:39
Attachments
I can answer it myself.
NO they don't. The Touch clocks are still in operation.
This solution just replaces the SPDIF interface.
An external DAC will be slaved and clocked by the Touch. NO GOOD!
(With a little extra effort it can get much better!) Or you still apply my Toolbox.
Those K&K I2S send/receive interface devices won't galvanically isolate either. K&K is doing that on the DAC board itself. Hmmh. ( Yep. Those guys are aware of the isolation issue)
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Hi folks.
Any Linux folks around?
Here's something for you to try:
Touch local ramdisk playback
I just put this method up to eliminate the nework streaming impact. We play the .wav track from the Touch ramdisk this way. By using this method and aplay we're also eliminating the impact of "jive" the Touch player app. It's therefore not 100% apples vs. apples.
Any feedback is welcome.
Cheers
Any Linux folks around?
Here's something for you to try:
Touch local ramdisk playback
I just put this method up to eliminate the nework streaming impact. We play the .wav track from the Touch ramdisk this way. By using this method and aplay we're also eliminating the impact of "jive" the Touch player app. It's therefore not 100% apples vs. apples.
Any feedback is welcome.
Cheers
So. What you're saying is you run the NAIM DAC and you do experience
a different performance of that device if modifiying the Touch? Is that correct?
According to NAIM marketing this should not be the case!
If you talk about differences on coax vs. Toslink. In what direction?
Let see if I can get access to such a device to see by myself how it performs.
As I understood, Naim DAC is jitter free internally, it does not introduce any jitter of its own.
I guess that it can not be responsible for deficiencies in transport quality,
or for example reflections in SPDIF cable with wrong impedance and stuff like that.
.
Interesting!
I got very similar result comparing FLAC decoded to PCM on the PC side,
to FLAC playback from SD card using SBT's internal server:
When I compare the sound of modded Touch / Naim DAC combination with the sound of Naim DAC alone (playing PCM wav directly from the USB memory stick),
Touch/Naim combination sounds somewhat duller.
Naim DAC alone, in memory stick mode, has greater dynamics, transients are sharper, there is more attack, bass has greater slam and kick, mids and highs are more detailed, treble is more extended, there is more air around instruments. Imaging is wider and deeper. Everything is more vivid.
Difference is not (it never is
Enough for me to worry about it, since I'm not using the full potential of this excellent DAC.
BUT...!!!
When I did put a SD card with the same music in the Touch, I was very surprised!
The sound became much closer to the real sound of Naim DAC.
Something I could live with.
In this scenario all the mods are still present, but the internal Tiny SBS is running and FLAC decoding is done inside the Touch.
.
After trying several coax digital cables, I chose Stereovox XV2.
It gives me the least colored sound, closest to the Naim DAC's USB stick playback,
which I believe is the real sound of the DAC, not dependent on transport characteristics.
XV2 is no frills true 75 Ohm cable with proper BNC termination. It has BNC to RCA adaptors included if you need them (I'm using one on the Touch side).
.
Touch to Touch setup
Just wanna share an idea for who would be willing to test this with 2 SBT (I have unfortunately only one):
I am currently using the SBT screen with remote as main GUI and can therefore not benefit from the screen off mod. Since SBT internal server can stream to several devices, my idea would be to stream from one SBT with external HDD connected to USB to another SBT with all mods applied. Different connectivity scenarios are possible: with a hub in between or without, using direct Ethernet connection instead.
This would be a temporary solution before Logitech will release a product that splits Server/GUI and transport (wishful thinking?). This leaves maybe also some more room for server side tweaking.
Anyone in the community who wants to try this and share the results?
Cheers,
Emmanuel
Just wanna share an idea for who would be willing to test this with 2 SBT (I have unfortunately only one):
I am currently using the SBT screen with remote as main GUI and can therefore not benefit from the screen off mod. Since SBT internal server can stream to several devices, my idea would be to stream from one SBT with external HDD connected to USB to another SBT with all mods applied. Different connectivity scenarios are possible: with a hub in between or without, using direct Ethernet connection instead.
This would be a temporary solution before Logitech will release a product that splits Server/GUI and transport (wishful thinking?). This leaves maybe also some more room for server side tweaking.
Anyone in the community who wants to try this and share the results?
Cheers,
Emmanuel
Can this be made in two separate mods?
I would like to have only spdif output active,
but I would also like to be able to listen to some of my favorite internet radio stations, which are now suffering from the chipmunk effect.
Why the Alsa plugin output mode tweak, had to go together with activating/deactivating spdif/analog outputs and USB?
Can this be separated please?
.
Linux back in business
Hi folks.
I installed an Ubuntu Server 10.10. on a USB stick. I never tried Ubuntu server before. Very nice and slim. Commandline only.
I also digged deeper into the TCP/IP parametrization.
It was really bugging me all the time that W7 performs better then Linux.
I think I caught up with an TCP/IP optimized W7 platform again.
Some more tests have to be done to come to a final conclusion.
Cheers
Hi folks.
I installed an Ubuntu Server 10.10. on a USB stick. I never tried Ubuntu server before. Very nice and slim. Commandline only.
I also digged deeper into the TCP/IP parametrization.
It was really bugging me all the time that W7 performs better then Linux.
I think I caught up with an TCP/IP optimized W7 platform again.
Some more tests have to be done to come to a final conclusion.
Cheers
There is a lot of talk about lineair power supplies. I have one for the Touch and it works well.
Is something like this helpfull at all?
APC Smart-UPS 1000VA USB & Serial 230V
Is something like this helpfull at all?
APC Smart-UPS 1000VA USB & Serial 230V