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Old 5th July 2010, 07:54 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt von Kubik View Post
Unfortunately that would bring the possibility to control the embedded squeezebox server software to an end.
And I would miss that a lot, since performance in my set-up is much better using an USB HDD than feeding via WLAN or ethernet. It is somewhat slower though, but that is a price Im willing to pay for better SQ.

Using my HTC as remote speeds up reaction time from my SBT to an acceptable level, even though Ive got pretty close to 1TB of music files.

So disconnecting the display does not seem to be an option for me.

Next experiment will be powering my HDD from a linear PSU.
There is no audio solution without compromises.

You'll win here, you'll loose there.

I considered the SD-card player solution as the potentially ultimate solution some months ago. I pretty quickly realized though that meanwhile the handling of my collection and the usage of great internet services like Last-FM in a home network environment gets higher priority then the last bit of sound quality.

With the modifications applied to the Touch I think I am doing more than fine in terms of SQ.

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Old 5th July 2010, 04:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
There is no audio solution without compromises.

You'll win here, you'll loose there.

I considered the SD-card player solution as the potentially ultimate solution some months ago. I pretty quickly realized though that meanwhile the handling of my collection and the usage of great internet services like Last-FM in a home network environment gets higher priority then the last bit of sound quality.

With the modifications applied to the Touch I think I am doing more than fine in terms of SQ.

Cheers
As you think I should try to go for a modified ethernet solution, I think you ought also to try out the USB HDD solution, provided that the USB HDD has its own PSU.

A funny thing I can tell about ethernet streaming is, that Ive experienced the same thing always. Last time was at my freinds place, where he streamed from a PC to his Denon AVP A1 HDA surrround reciever. The sound was harrassing me seriously, I simply hated it. Then he found the actual CD, which was ripped to his PC in uncompressed Wave format, he put in his bluray player, which was connected to the HDMI input of the Denon reciever.
Suddenly the world became a better place to be, there is no comparison regarding SQ in those two sources. Unfortunately I experienced the excact same when connecting the SBT, Ethernet/WLAN = NOGO, USB reacts the same way as his HDMI connection did.
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Old 9th July 2010, 09:56 AM   #33
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Finally Ive gotten the linear PSU for the USB HDD running.
It is just a variable PSU from a company called GW like this one Universal netdel 2000mA | BN051988 - Elektronik Lavpris ApS
I decoupled it with a 2.200F ElCap paralleled by a polyester film cap @ 470 nF at the output pins.

Now the sound definately changed into a more direct sound with better resolution in the basic tone area, which means something around 150-1.000 Hz or so. Also bass resolution improved, and I thought well about it in the first place. But something annoying came up which pussled me pretty much. It was if a slight distortion on sibilance occurred now and then. Not always but on some recordings only.
I thought that this might actually be the recording, just now the recording flaws was being revealed. But after a while I thought, that if that was the case, I would prefer the old supply for the HDD.
But then with no special thought I just tried to pull out the original SMPS from the outlet - Bingo.
These SMPS supplies are so noisy, that they will pollute your power so much, that your set-up will react negatively upon it, even if it is unloaded.

So a good tip is not to connect anything powered by SMPS anywhere near your set-up, both as a part of the set-up or not.

Regarding connecting a PC, I did not try this out, but I think the result will be pretty much the same, regardless of which wall outlet is used, because noise is distributed through the ethernet cable itself. Transformers will not really do any difference on that matter.

Just my findings, and I love my SBT even more now.
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Old 9th July 2010, 10:26 AM   #34
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Kurt.

You might have read on my blog that I recommend batteries as the ultimate supply option.
I put together over there - though I didn't tell how I got there - a solution which tries to eliminate all those traps your're coming up with here and then.

Anyhow you seem to be on a good way going into the right direction --- "Learning by Doing" -- it'll take a while but I 'm sure you'll get there.

But - pleezze - don't speculate like "Regarding connecting a PC, I did not try this out, but I think the result will be pretty much the same, regardless of which wall outlet is used....".

Read up my ethernet hints and try them. There is a good reason why I listed them up.

And I am sure that the "no monitor" tweak + "ethernet" tweak + "remote flac decoding"+ "no local server" will beat your self powered HDD approach.

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Old 9th July 2010, 11:42 AM   #35
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Battery power is also pretty noisy but in other ways.
Simple Voltage Regulators Part 1: Noise
So i dont think thats the way to go.
Everywhere Ive heard battery powered hifi of any kind, it has been nogo.
Also the sound differs a lot from battery to battery, surely depending on output impedance, which is both high and non linear on batteries.

Ill try out the ethernet solution soon, even though it from a theoretical point of view, does not look as attractive.
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Old 9th July 2010, 12:07 PM   #36
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Battery power is also pretty noisy but in other ways.
Simple Voltage Regulators Part 1: Noise
So i dont think thats the way to go.
Everywhere Ive heard battery powered hifi of any kind, it has been nogo.
Also the sound differs a lot from battery to battery, surely depending on output impedance, which is both high and non linear on batteries.

Ill try out the ethernet solution soon, even though it from a theoretical point of view, does not look as attractive.

Hint: Try a buffered 3.3V LiPoFe against a Paul Hynes or any other highly regarded voltage regulator. Then we can continue discussing noise issues.


Again, even if there'd be a noise issue associated to batteries, I consider interstage interferences/modulations the much worse compromise.
Not to forget the mains power supply is a highly reactive power source.

It is always about choosing the lesser of two evils. You need to find the best compromise for your chain. You always need to revise those compromises the further up you'll climb the ladder.

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Old 9th July 2010, 12:11 PM   #37
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Agreed, that TNT paper on batteries is wrong & should be taken down or amended - there are more reliably scientific papers that show quiet the opposite of this as far as battery noise is concerned.
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Old 14th July 2010, 12:30 PM   #38
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Hint: Try a buffered 3.3V LiPoFe against a Paul Hynes or any other highly regarded voltage regulator. Then we can continue discussing noise issues.

Hi soundcheck,

How do you "buffer" the LiFePo4 batteries?

TIA
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Old 14th July 2010, 04:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Nikola Krivorov View Post
Hi soundcheck,

How do you "buffer" the LiFePo4 batteries?

TIA
What he means is putting a cap across the battery terminals to provide a reservoir from which charge can be drawn. In my opinion you don't need this with the A123 batteries & in fact you will probably degrade the performance of the batteries <8mOhm impedance. They are plenty fast enough on their own without caps & you will probably spend the same again if not more on a good quality cap so why bother!
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Old 14th July 2010, 07:21 PM   #40
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What he means is putting a cap across the battery terminals to provide a reservoir from which charge can be drawn. In my opinion you don't need this with the A123 batteries & in fact you will probably degrade the performance of the batteries <8mOhm impedance. They are plenty fast enough on their own without caps & you will probably spend the same again if not more on a good quality cap so why bother!


The battery sits behind a switch, plug and perhaps even a fuse.
These do impact the performance. You should verify this.

A quality low ESR cap array ( Epcos Sikorel/Rifa) IMO still performs better then a plain battery.

Hint: You might also try a Bybee in the line.

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