Hi all,
I was just wondering, has anyone experience with both of these two interfaces? I would really want to know if spending more for the m2Tech worths it!
Thank you!
I was just wondering, has anyone experience with both of these two interfaces? I would really want to know if spending more for the m2Tech worths it!
Thank you!
In my opinion it is best to spend the least money as the technology is moving very rapidly in this area. Before you know it you will be upgrading to the next thing.
Get the M2Tech if you can afford it.
I had the Musiland and sold it as soon as I tried the M2Tech.
I had the Musiland and sold it as soon as I tried the M2Tech.
My two cents:
I would not recommend to buy interfaces which are running on a specific
operating system only and beside that need a proprietary driver to do so.
Cheers
I would not recommend to buy interfaces which are running on a specific
operating system only and beside that need a proprietary driver to do so.
Cheers
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Thank you for your replies.
Now, I think these two designs are quite similar so it boils down to how the clock is generated, especially for non standard sampling rates. I know the M2Tech has two crystals so no PLL wizardry here. Don't know about the musiland. Any info?
I intend not to use the spdif connection but tap on the I2S, that should further remove any differences.
Soundcheck, as far as I remember these two are not offering any driver for linux, do you know any options?
Now, I think these two designs are quite similar so it boils down to how the clock is generated, especially for non standard sampling rates. I know the M2Tech has two crystals so no PLL wizardry here. Don't know about the musiland. Any info?
I intend not to use the spdif connection but tap on the I2S, that should further remove any differences.
Soundcheck, as far as I remember these two are not offering any driver for linux, do you know any options?
The clocks in the Musiland are derived by the DCMs in the FPGA. This means integer multiplication and division in the FPGA. The clocks in the hiface MAY be manipulated by the DCMs (somewhere the clock frequency has to be divided because spdif frequency is much lower than the clocks)
M2Tech runs on all recent versions Windows and MacOS. If you plan on using it with Linux you'll be disappointed (at least for now).
I'm not sure how the development on Linux drivers goes for Musiland or if it supports MacOS. In Windows it was fine (though the various "clock flavors" on the drivers put me off).
I'm not sure how the development on Linux drivers goes for Musiland or if it supports MacOS. In Windows it was fine (though the various "clock flavors" on the drivers put me off).
I have to agree with soundcheck regarding proprietary drivers. Take a look at the XMOS board. It runs on
standard USB audio class 2.0 drivers under Linux, Windows and MacOS. It offers I2S, Toslink, SPDIF and Analog outputs.
standard USB audio class 2.0 drivers under Linux, Windows and MacOS. It offers I2S, Toslink, SPDIF and Analog outputs.
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Guys, like it or not, Linux users are a minority.
Check data of April 2010, for example:
Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If your gear works for Windows and MacOS you pretty much cover the 98% of the users out there.
Of course anyone is free to use whatever OS he wants, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to settle for lesser devices (see XMOS with it's placeholder clocks and Toslink transmitters, to name a few of it's drawbacks).
I personally buy my audio stuff to do the job they're supposed to do in the best possible way (preferably working out of the box with no tweaking or compatibility and driver issues in the O/S I use), not to make a statement.
At some point there will be Linux drivers for M2Tech as well but they'd still wouldn't go by the whole "open software" idea.
I don't like having to rely on proprietary drivers either but then again proprietary means protection of intellectual property which, in itself, translates to money; and money is what makes the world go around these days.
We can go into the whole communism/capitalism/whatever in some other forum (or sub-forum of diyaudio) but I'm sure in this one the moderators would rather we keep it technical and leave ideological discussions aside.
Check data of April 2010, for example:
Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If your gear works for Windows and MacOS you pretty much cover the 98% of the users out there.
Of course anyone is free to use whatever OS he wants, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to settle for lesser devices (see XMOS with it's placeholder clocks and Toslink transmitters, to name a few of it's drawbacks).
I personally buy my audio stuff to do the job they're supposed to do in the best possible way (preferably working out of the box with no tweaking or compatibility and driver issues in the O/S I use), not to make a statement.
At some point there will be Linux drivers for M2Tech as well but they'd still wouldn't go by the whole "open software" idea.
I don't like having to rely on proprietary drivers either but then again proprietary means protection of intellectual property which, in itself, translates to money; and money is what makes the world go around these days.
We can go into the whole communism/capitalism/whatever in some other forum (or sub-forum of diyaudio) but I'm sure in this one the moderators would rather we keep it technical and leave ideological discussions aside.
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Hi,
I have a M2tech interface working with a Mac. The italian distributor told me that the designer of the interface promised a Linux driver in a couple of months.
Northernsky
I have a M2tech interface working with a Mac. The italian distributor told me that the designer of the interface promised a Linux driver in a couple of months.
Northernsky
At the moment I have Musiland 01USD and a friend of mine gave me to listen M2Tech Hiface.
HiFace is much better, more clear, deeper soundstage, more accurate bass responce.
Musiland has a boomy bass. Both of them are with battery power supply, Musiland is with
changed S\PDIF transformer Newava and OsCon capacitors.
HiFace is much better, more clear, deeper soundstage, more accurate bass responce.
Musiland has a boomy bass. Both of them are with battery power supply, Musiland is with
changed S\PDIF transformer Newava and OsCon capacitors.
I have compared the 2 over time. The Musiland has it's own supply and the usb + line is cut. The M2Tech aslo has additional fltering on the 5V line.
At first listen, the M2tech is better. But over a long period, the Musiland wins on musicality (1.0.8.4 driver and KS, with 10 buffers). The M2Tech is slightly bright and impresses by being 'clearer'. The replay system is is high quality.
It seems to me that these switching regulators on the M2Tech may not be quite up to scratch.
Forget about native usb. These devices with their own drivers are rock stable and not open to interference like native usb devices can be. They also do 192k.
Thank you for your replies! Probably I'll go with the musiland, it also seems more easy to mod..
I have a Musiland Mini, but i use only the modificated spdif output without transformer. iI have made some internal power supply improvement with much less noise and get a more precise and the same time more enjoyable sound than M2Hiface with battery mod.
The Musiland is the only usb audio gear with handshaking protocol to my mind.
I have never had any software problem (on boned XP SP2) and foobar2000.
The Musiland is the only usb audio gear with handshaking protocol to my mind.
I have never had any software problem (on boned XP SP2) and foobar2000.
The best brandings for HiFi 2.0 stereo internal PCI sound card are listed as below: (But different brandings for 7.1 ch or gaming)
1) Musiland - China
2) Creative - Singapore
3) Tempotec - China
4) Onkyo - Japan
For HiFi 2.0 Stereo external potable USB sound card (another name USB DAC) at entry level, the Musiland Monitor 01 Mini is one of the best choice and a hot stuff for young kids. But, I recommend you to take a look at Musiland’s new portable USB DAC “Monitor 03 US” which was launched few months ago at June, 2011. The design philosophy of Monitor 03 US is based on the following:
=>Digital input is based on asynchronous USB interface with FIFO mode and DSP & I/O using FPGA chipset Xilinx XC3S200A which significantly reduces the jitter problem
=>Digital to Analog Converter is based on TI Burr Brown PCM1798 DAC which supports up to 24Bit/192KHz at 123dB
=>Stereo analog output (RCA) is based on OPAMP MC33079 (Quad) (i.e. you can modify to LME49740)
=>Software driver supports up to 32Bit/384KHz which is ASIO compatible with Footbar2000 media payer
The process model of typical sound card is:
1) Computer bus input (e.g. PCI for internal or USB for external)
2) Main chipset for DSP and I/O (e.g. FPGA)
3) DAC (e.g. 24Bit/192KHz DAC)
4) Analog output (e.g. IC OPAMP)
The key issue is that the SRC (Sample Rate Converter) which exists in all built-in motherboard will compress the source from higher 192KHz to lower sampling rate (say 48KHz) and make sound bad. The FPGA in either internal PCI sound card or external USB DAC can be used to by-pass the SRC which perform real 24Bit/192KHz HiFi sound. The design of Musiland Monitor 03 US is superior to entry level while the price is at entry level. It is affordable for most of young kids with price 100 times less than Jeff Rowland new Aeris DAC which also use FPGA to by-pass SRC.
1) Musiland - China
2) Creative - Singapore
3) Tempotec - China
4) Onkyo - Japan
For HiFi 2.0 Stereo external potable USB sound card (another name USB DAC) at entry level, the Musiland Monitor 01 Mini is one of the best choice and a hot stuff for young kids. But, I recommend you to take a look at Musiland’s new portable USB DAC “Monitor 03 US” which was launched few months ago at June, 2011. The design philosophy of Monitor 03 US is based on the following:
=>Digital input is based on asynchronous USB interface with FIFO mode and DSP & I/O using FPGA chipset Xilinx XC3S200A which significantly reduces the jitter problem
=>Digital to Analog Converter is based on TI Burr Brown PCM1798 DAC which supports up to 24Bit/192KHz at 123dB
=>Stereo analog output (RCA) is based on OPAMP MC33079 (Quad) (i.e. you can modify to LME49740)
=>Software driver supports up to 32Bit/384KHz which is ASIO compatible with Footbar2000 media payer
The process model of typical sound card is:
1) Computer bus input (e.g. PCI for internal or USB for external)
2) Main chipset for DSP and I/O (e.g. FPGA)
3) DAC (e.g. 24Bit/192KHz DAC)
4) Analog output (e.g. IC OPAMP)
The key issue is that the SRC (Sample Rate Converter) which exists in all built-in motherboard will compress the source from higher 192KHz to lower sampling rate (say 48KHz) and make sound bad. The FPGA in either internal PCI sound card or external USB DAC can be used to by-pass the SRC which perform real 24Bit/192KHz HiFi sound. The design of Musiland Monitor 03 US is superior to entry level while the price is at entry level. It is affordable for most of young kids with price 100 times less than Jeff Rowland new Aeris DAC which also use FPGA to by-pass SRC.
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Well, AC97 is the past now. Intel HDA supports up to 192kHz and many on-board chipset + codec combinations support all the common sample rates without resampling.
Yes, correct! May give a short brief about the difference between AC97 Codec and HD Audio Codec.
Both are “built-in” chipset in computer motherboard for Codec function in audio application. AC97 codec was established in 1996 which supports 20Bit/96KHz in stereo channel and 20Bit/48KHz in 6 channels, but it was replaced by HD Audio in 2004. HD Audio codec supports 32Bit/192KHz in stereo channel and 32Bit/96KHz in 8 channels.
Even the final version, AC'97 specifications are far less than the HD Audio. In order to maximize access to "real fine" sound, the specification of HD Audio is up to the 32bit/192kHz. This includes two concepts. The first is the sampling precision, the more bits, the amount of data available to describe the sound more rich. The second refers the sampling frequency, the higher the frequency, the shorter the time interval, the more the sound obtained delicate and smooth. In the actual output, HD Audio can also be reached 24bit/192kHz, this level has been in the specifications with the use of DSD technology SACD player match. In contrast, the present CD-Audio technology specifications are 16bit/44.1kHz and DVD-Audio standard is only 24bit/96kHz.
The key issue is the SRC problem which exists in AC97 codec, but solved by HD Audio codec. The SRC in AC97 will enforce any input frequency to fix at 48KHz output and make sound quality bad due to sampling rate loss with jitter problem. (i.e. 44.1KHz in CD will upward to 48KHz, but 192KHz in Master Studio quality will compress to 48KHz). HD Audio codec is completely by-pass SRC by using software driver. In HiFi level audio application, “built-in” on board HD Audio codec is still not sufficient to satisfy music amateur. Thus, either internal PCI sound card or external USB DAC is used to replace the “built-in” on board chipset to offer real high fidelity sound.
Remark:
Who know this issue the best? My answer is "Intel Corp" in USA. But, he seldom mentions it since release of HD Audio codec and it is not well known to public. May be, Intel Corp is now busy to deal with a lot of profitable business.
Who know this issue the best? My answer is "Intel Corp" in USA. But, he seldom mentions it since release of HD Audio codec and it is not well known to public. May be, Intel Corp is now busy to deal with a lot of profitable business.
I am afraid I do not understand what you mean by this sentence.
But that is due to noisy clocks and noisy power supplies, not due to fixed resampling.
Dear Phofman,
First question, I recommend you to contact Intel either locally or direct to USA for formal and detail explanation.
Second question, clock sychronization, noisy power supply and fixed resampling are factors to make bad sound, but not solely due to fixed resampling. Due to cost consideration, HD Audio codec cannot provide hi-end DAC chipset and IC OPAMP for analog amplification output. Thus require internal PCI sound card or external USB DAC for music amateur.
First question, I recommend you to contact Intel either locally or direct to USA for formal and detail explanation.
Second question, clock sychronization, noisy power supply and fixed resampling are factors to make bad sound, but not solely due to fixed resampling. Due to cost consideration, HD Audio codec cannot provide hi-end DAC chipset and IC OPAMP for analog amplification output. Thus require internal PCI sound card or external USB DAC for music amateur.
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