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Old 12th October 2009, 09:01 PM   #21
Theo404 is offline Theo404  United Kingdom
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Indeed that is one way of doing it. I just did so myself, but simply ripped the same track in both EAC and 'dbpoweramp' to wav and the MD5 checksum is identical. Which is why posts like this are nonsense:



Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
I downloaded and installed the program. It is preset for .flac output, so I changed it to .wav output. Other than the annoying habit of creating lots of folders within folders, it worked very quickly, and I mean quickly ! It also showed a box with the artwork of the CD that was being ripped.
These features alone would make it very appealing for someone with a shitload of CDs, who just wanted to rip them to the HDD as .flac etc., and would undoubtedly appeal to people who don't demand the absolute best quality from their music playback.
As far as ripping .wav files at highest quality, it was O.K. but quite a bit below the SQ of the same "California Project-Papa Doo Run Run" tracks that I ripped a few days ago using E.A.C.
It didn't have the "light and shade", or the dynamics of the EAC rip.
BUT, IT IS DAMN FAST !

SandyK

P.S.
Perhaps there may be some settings somewhere to improve rips of .wav files, but TBH, I have no desire to look further.
I have saved the ripped files for comparison purposes with an EAC rip if requested, but the program itself is about to be uninstalled.


Basically, JeffC and myself found that dbpoweramp made the vocalist sound a little louder in the overall mix, but not where you could close your eyes,and imagine him/her standing in front of you.There was less separation between instruments and a poorer soundstage. HF detail did not seem quite as good.Many people seem to mistake a recording where the vocalist and musical accompanment sounds louder, as better. IMHO, It is usually the result of a poorer soundstage. HF detail and low level ambience play a prominent part in achieving a good soundstage .
Firstly referring to using FLAC to store music as "would undoubtedly appeal to people who don't demand the absolute best quality from their music" is incorrect, HINT: the L in FLAC stands for lossless!

Secondly... read first paragraph of this post... identical rips with different software. There is no difference. If there is your doing something wrong.
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:45 PM   #22
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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"

Firstly referring to using FLAC to store music as "would undoubtedly appeal to people who don't demand the absolute best quality from their music" is incorrect, HINT: the L in FLAC stands for lossless!

Secondly... read first paragraph of this post... identical rips with different software. There is no difference. If there is your doing something wrong.


Yes ,and playback from a SSD doesn't sound better than that from a HDD with the identical material either ?"

That isn't the finding from a Computer Audiophile Symposium back in June, where there many representatives from the Audio, Industry, Recording Industry, and Recording Artists. There is a lot more to the picture than just ripping the files with the cheapest and nastiest CD writer you can find,having the ripping program say you have an accurate rip,and storing them on a typical noisy SMPS powered PC or Mac, with or without conversion to a lossless format. Yes, all ripping programs sound the same too ?
Again, why does playback from a SSD sound better than a HDD ?
I'm outta here! There are far too many sarcastic, and closed minded members,
who rely on present teachings.
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:00 PM   #23
Theo404 is offline Theo404  United Kingdom
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Ironically my post contained no sarcasm and your was rife with it.

Please try not to insert your own words into quotes. We are not discussing storage media here.

So are you suggesting there is a difference between the two files I ripped? That the MD5 checksum cannot detect 'low level detail' or some other 'audiophile' concept?

Quote:
Computer Audiophile Symposium
Dear god... they are organising symposiums?!? Quick, rational people of earth, run for the hills, we've already lost!
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:43 PM   #24
defect9 is offline defect9  Ireland
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sometimes I wonder if people want there to be a difference enough to hear it...

The reason an SSD may sound different than a platter-based HD is simple. Voodoo.

okay, I'm kidding, and that may make me an ***. I'll accept that. Honestly, what you're likely hearing is the result of the DA converters, and whether or not they're getting the information on time (jitter), processing it on time (again, jitter), and processing it accurately (distortion, but not the HDs fault). If the recordings are both bit perfect, then the only issue can be the exact timing of the bits, or the translation of the bits into analog, neither of which is handled by the drive

So, if you have an HD and the song is written to it in one contiguous file, then you should have no issues with jitter as related to the drive, unless of course there is a system issue with the SATA controller being accessed by something else and interrupting the flow of your bits (or whatever controller you're using, IDE, SCSI, whatever), but due to the high bandwidth of a SATA controller and the buffers, this is highly unlikely. if it is happenning, your system needs to be reconfigured because someone screwed up horribly. The issue could be if your .wav/FLAC/whatever is fragmented, then there is always that possibility that you could have jitter induced by not getting the bits through fast enough, however... that's why you have buffers on HDs. The bandwidth needed by even a 32-bit wav file is not enough to overload an SATA controller or a modern HDs streaming capabilities (unless you use some crappy HD in an attempt to sway the opinion, or have a very fragmented file, which is, again, your fault).

There is no magic here
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:06 PM   #25
Theo404 is offline Theo404  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defect9 View Post
sometimes I wonder if people want there to be a difference enough to hear it...
Wonder no more!

Quote:
dbpoweramp made the vocalist sound a little louder in the overall mix, but not where you could close your eyes,and imagine him/her standing in front of you.There was less separation between instruments and a poorer soundstage. HF detail did not seem quite as good.
This being said in reference to the comparison of two bit for bit identical (with the exception of inept use of software, a large caveat) files.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:10 PM   #26
Atilla is offline Atilla  Norway
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There is a huge croud of software engineers that almost laughed to death tonight. Thank you, thank you so much for provding us with this entertainment.


The WAV vs. FLAC was hilarious enough, but then the things turned to SSD vs Magnetic Disk and we had to take a break, risking to choke from laughter otherwse.

Ooh, man, it's been a good night.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:13 PM   #27
toufu is offline toufu  United States
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Ever wonder why people take music ripping so seriously, but when you install software from your CD/DVD drive, it's always flawless? (Even 1 bit of error can cause programs to behave differently). I have hard time spending an hour to rip a CD when I can use Foobar to do it in 2-3 minutes.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:13 PM   #28
defect9 is offline defect9  Ireland
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I still find these discussions fun, because I've fallen into the same trap of "I heard a difference!" when it was just that I was listening closer because I wanted some kind of justification for all the hassle I went through when a DIY project had extra 'complications.'

I can honestly believe that anyone who claims they hear a difference honestly does hear a difference. The problem comes in believeing we know exactly why there's a difference with nothing but a listening test behind us. Still, fun to believe though.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:18 PM   #29
tuckers is offline tuckers  United States
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dbPowerAmp for the PC is the best of the lot.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:33 PM   #30
Atilla is offline Atilla  Norway
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All fun aside, EAC is my favorte and I store music in FLAC.

There's a reason why CDs work even after abuse and why a software executable, whch can suffer irrecoverable corruption even due to 1 flipped bit, still works after you play frisbee wth the CD. It's called Cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon coding, which along with certain techniques in CD-readers ensures the damn thing still works after every time you take it out of the case.

Yes, in certain cases using a software that scrutinizes the raw data access can have benefits and that's why we like using some of the aforementioned programs. The cases in which they've reported that I *needed* to run them however have been very, very few.

Compared to those error margins, the noise in any sound card is a much bigger problem.
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