Hi Guys.I first posted this at digital source and then realised it belongs here
I have two medium range cd players Marantz cd7300 and rotel rcd 951.However the hassle of changing discs all the time is getting to me.I am looking at building a dedicated music server with fanless CPU and two power supplies to eliminate noise.I plan on using the Asus stx as soundcard and will use the analogue outs directly into my amp.I have previously used the digital coax out on a intel Bad Axe board using Asio4all into a Denon AVR 3508 using the Denon's onboard 24 bit dacs to good effect.This was then pre-amped out to various amps(depending on my mood) like a Sunfire 400x5 bi amped or one of my class A/B amps(Marantz pm 94 / Denon poa 600 etc.The sound quality using this process was better than both cd players direct with more dynamics and wider sound stage.I also have a Nakamichi PA7 preamp and both the Nak and Marantz pm 94 preamp still sound the best to me.
My questions are as follows:
How good will the onboard dac on the asus stx be for analogue out?.If it can equal or better my cd players analogue out I will be happy as I now have endless music!
I have been scoping an external dac by AUDIO GD (DAC 19 MK 3).Seeing that a pc will be the source , will this not be overkill as the coaxial out is still from a pc?.
Will the ultimate be the Asus xonar stx digital coaxial out into theAUDIO GD DAC 19 mk3?.How much better will the Asus coax out be than the Intel onboard coax which I found to be very good.
All music is recorded using EAC and a cd brake program to control spin speed whilst recording.Asio drivers will be used and the pc running a minimized windows xp(all extras disabled)
Feedback and opinions will be most welcome
Seafire
I have two medium range cd players Marantz cd7300 and rotel rcd 951.However the hassle of changing discs all the time is getting to me.I am looking at building a dedicated music server with fanless CPU and two power supplies to eliminate noise.I plan on using the Asus stx as soundcard and will use the analogue outs directly into my amp.I have previously used the digital coax out on a intel Bad Axe board using Asio4all into a Denon AVR 3508 using the Denon's onboard 24 bit dacs to good effect.This was then pre-amped out to various amps(depending on my mood) like a Sunfire 400x5 bi amped or one of my class A/B amps(Marantz pm 94 / Denon poa 600 etc.The sound quality using this process was better than both cd players direct with more dynamics and wider sound stage.I also have a Nakamichi PA7 preamp and both the Nak and Marantz pm 94 preamp still sound the best to me.My questions are as follows:
How good will the onboard dac on the asus stx be for analogue out?.If it can equal or better my cd players analogue out I will be happy as I now have endless music!
I have been scoping an external dac by AUDIO GD (DAC 19 MK 3).Seeing that a pc will be the source , will this not be overkill as the coaxial out is still from a pc?.
Will the ultimate be the Asus xonar stx digital coaxial out into theAUDIO GD DAC 19 mk3?.How much better will the Asus coax out be than the Intel onboard coax which I found to be very good.
All music is recorded using EAC and a cd brake program to control spin speed whilst recording.Asio drivers will be used and the pc running a minimized windows xp(all extras disabled)
Feedback and opinions will be most welcome
Seafire
Hi Quality Music Server
"I have been scoping an external dac by AUDIO GD (DAC 19 MK 3).Seeing that a pc will be the source , will this not be overkill as the coaxial out is still from a pc?.
Will the ultimate be the Asus xonar stx digital coaxial out into theAUDIO GD DAC 19 mk3?.How much better will the Asus coax out be than the Intel onboard coax which I found to be very good."
seafire
The measures you intend taking with this PC as far as fanless etc. should see the SQ from this method markedly better than your typical CD player's Analogue OUT, or for that matter, into the same DAC from SPDIF OUT of the CD player.
I can't answer your question about Asus Xonar SPDIF vs. Intel SPDIF, as my PC only has SPDIF available from my Asus Xonar D2X.
Analogue OUT from my Asus Xonar D2X sounds better than analogue out from a typical affordable CD/DVD player, even a well modified player.
However, it is still some way behind SPDIF from my Asus Xonar D2X into a heavily modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3.
SandyK
"I have been scoping an external dac by AUDIO GD (DAC 19 MK 3).Seeing that a pc will be the source , will this not be overkill as the coaxial out is still from a pc?.
Will the ultimate be the Asus xonar stx digital coaxial out into theAUDIO GD DAC 19 mk3?.How much better will the Asus coax out be than the Intel onboard coax which I found to be very good."
seafire
The measures you intend taking with this PC as far as fanless etc. should see the SQ from this method markedly better than your typical CD player's Analogue OUT, or for that matter, into the same DAC from SPDIF OUT of the CD player.
I can't answer your question about Asus Xonar SPDIF vs. Intel SPDIF, as my PC only has SPDIF available from my Asus Xonar D2X.
Analogue OUT from my Asus Xonar D2X sounds better than analogue out from a typical affordable CD/DVD player, even a well modified player.
However, it is still some way behind SPDIF from my Asus Xonar D2X into a heavily modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3.
SandyK
Thanx Sandyk.
I think I will first see how the analogue out from the Asus Xonar sounds.The point is that I want to input straight into my Nak and Marantz pre-amps.I have a feeling that it is going to be a close race against an external dac.Will the price difference (150$ vs 500$) warrant the SQ.Reading what I have about the Xonar STX I have a hunch that it will be a close call.
Your take???
Seafire
I think I will first see how the analogue out from the Asus Xonar sounds.The point is that I want to input straight into my Nak and Marantz pre-amps.I have a feeling that it is going to be a close race against an external dac.Will the price difference (150$ vs 500$) warrant the SQ.Reading what I have about the Xonar STX I have a hunch that it will be a close call.
Your take???
Seafire
Hi seafire,
I have also been contemplating building a PC based music server with the Xonar. What is stopping me is cost to make the PC completely quiet. I am very sensitive to background noise and did not find a way yet to eliminate all the fans and keep the cost reasonnable.
A fanless power supply is around $200, A fanless case is difficult to find at a reasonable cost: another $200+. Solid State drives are around $200.
That PC is going to cost me more than $1K.
I still find the cost too high compared to devices like the Egreat M31B
http://www.egreatusa.com/egreat-egm31b-networked-media-tank-n31.html
Many times cheaper that anything I can build myself. But again, I do not know if the analog output is audiophile grade.
I have also been contemplating building a PC based music server with the Xonar. What is stopping me is cost to make the PC completely quiet. I am very sensitive to background noise and did not find a way yet to eliminate all the fans and keep the cost reasonnable.
A fanless power supply is around $200, A fanless case is difficult to find at a reasonable cost: another $200+. Solid State drives are around $200.
That PC is going to cost me more than $1K.
I still find the cost too high compared to devices like the Egreat M31B
http://www.egreatusa.com/egreat-egm31b-networked-media-tank-n31.html
Many times cheaper that anything I can build myself. But again, I do not know if the analog output is audiophile grade.
Hi Quality music server
seafire
Is the STX the new one with the inbuilt headphone amplifier, and swappable I.C. s ? I think you would need a much higher priced DAC to beat the Asus Xonar soundcard's Analogue OUT.
SandyK
Lowtherdream
For starters, try mounting the fans with the attached. I got mine from QuietPC (N.Z.)
Ultra-Soft Arrowhead Fan Mounts AFM02B, qty 8 (2 fans)
N.Z.$ 10.29
seafire
Is the STX the new one with the inbuilt headphone amplifier, and swappable I.C. s ? I think you would need a much higher priced DAC to beat the Asus Xonar soundcard's Analogue OUT.
SandyK
Lowtherdream
For starters, try mounting the fans with the attached. I got mine from QuietPC (N.Z.)
Ultra-Soft Arrowhead Fan Mounts AFM02B, qty 8 (2 fans)
N.Z.$ 10.29
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Hi Lowtherdream
Your costs could be brought down.Buy one hi end fan-less clean power supply
that will feed your cpu ,mobo and soundcard.The second power supply can be used for running hdd and and auxilaries.Run the cpu with a fan less heat sink.You can always extend the molex connectors and isolate the 2cnd power supply away in a box etc.Hard drives can be put in a plastic box with a lid. Mount on blu tack etc to isolate noise and vibration.Another alternative is a laptop hard drive as 500 G are now available and are not so noisy.120 mm low noise low rpm fans are a dime a dosen today and are extremely quiet. With a little imagination there are endless options
Seafire
Xonar STX is here.
I received my ASUS XONAR STX audiophile card today.Being in IT myself I have decided on a Foxconn 45GMX-V as the platform,as we have built and sold well over 300 of these motherboard based pc's and found them very reliable.
Power supply is X2 Ac-bel 650 w .Both are modified to run fan less simply by adding x2 larger heatsinks from a piece of extruded heatsink aluminium.X 1 is dedicated power for the mobo and xonar card.Having no motors(cpu fan,hard drives etc) ensures clean power to the soundcard.The CPU is Intel Dual-Core 5200 with a fan less heatsink. The second power supply feeds all hard drives, +5 v of the usb out and a 120 mm low rpm low noise fan.So as can be seen the two power supplies are totally isolated from each other.
Foxconn onboard sound disabled.Onboard graphics are used with no hardware acceleration.Win XP SP 3 loaded with the minimum services.Hard drives are X 2 Samsung 750 gig.All music is EAC extacted wav files played back with Foobar 2000 and Asio drivers.
Pc has been running for two days to check power supplies.A little warmer than normal but absolutely no problems .I will be installing xonar today and start extensive evaluation and tests.
Hold thumbs
I received my ASUS XONAR STX audiophile card today.Being in IT myself I have decided on a Foxconn 45GMX-V as the platform,as we have built and sold well over 300 of these motherboard based pc's and found them very reliable.
Power supply is X2 Ac-bel 650 w .Both are modified to run fan less simply by adding x2 larger heatsinks from a piece of extruded heatsink aluminium.X 1 is dedicated power for the mobo and xonar card.Having no motors(cpu fan,hard drives etc) ensures clean power to the soundcard.The CPU is Intel Dual-Core 5200 with a fan less heatsink. The second power supply feeds all hard drives, +5 v of the usb out and a 120 mm low rpm low noise fan.So as can be seen the two power supplies are totally isolated from each other.
Foxconn onboard sound disabled.Onboard graphics are used with no hardware acceleration.Win XP SP 3 loaded with the minimum services.Hard drives are X 2 Samsung 750 gig.All music is EAC extacted wav files played back with Foobar 2000 and Asio drivers.
Pc has been running for two days to check power supplies.A little warmer than normal but absolutely no problems .I will be installing xonar today and start extensive evaluation and tests.
Hold thumbs
he is running TWO 650 watt psu's!!! that's definitely overkill!!!
From all of my reading. and I have been reading every review of 300-500 watt power supplies I can find. Including many fan less power supplies. All reports I have read have stated that the average PC doesn't need more then 200-250watts for a power supply. and even a pc with a Heavy Dity graphics card, power hungry CPU, multiple hard drives etc. doesn't need much more then 300watts.
AND, what has been very interesting, is that many of the so called 500+ watt power supplies, wont actually put out 500 watts! One review i read the supply would only do 250 watts before it blew up! and the reviews of the noise spec of these supplies is quite telling.
I really like the reviews at http://www.silentpcreview.com and I like that they will also point out other reviews of products on other websites! they go to great lengths to talk about there test methods and even admit when they find a flaw in there testing and they what they did to correct it. pretty in depth stuff. and there not afraid to say, hey this is a piece of crap and here is why, look, here, here and here kind of thing!
I too am embarking on building a Media PC. I have a Zalman HD160XT case on the way with a Gigagbyte GA-P31-S3G MB, ATI HD4760 video card with HDMI output, Visiontek 650 HDTV Tuner card and soon Blu-Ray drive and Xonar sound card.
I have been debating the merits of the Xonar card. My MB has SPDIF output that i can used to feed and external DAC for audio only playback. and audio for video is routed through the HDMI port to my Denon Surround sound receiver that is used for movie playback. So why do i really need the Xonar card? the only benefit i can see is for the copy protection ** for Blu-Ray disc's. so what am i missing??
Playback of DVD-A disc's maybe. I wish i could play SACD's in a HTPC, not sure if that is possible but i don't think so.
Missing the point
Hi Zero Cool.
I think you have missed the point.I am not trying to build a multi media server,but a dedicated audiophile pc for music and music alone to replace my mid to hi end Marantz cd player.My goal is a music server with at least my marantz player quality if not better.I bought those 650w power supplies on special and the theory is you can never have enough power when it comes to music (increases dynamic response and lowers noise floor.I am running two supplies because any type of electric motor will induce noise on the power line.So the soundcard+mobo run on one with no fans, motors etc.I chose the cheap Foxconn board for its onboard graphics etc,A graphic card would cause EMF radiaton that I dont want.For that I have a foxconn X38 A DIGTAL LIFE with all the bells and whistles.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
Seafire
Hi Zero Cool.
I think you have missed the point.I am not trying to build a multi media server,but a dedicated audiophile pc for music and music alone to replace my mid to hi end Marantz cd player.My goal is a music server with at least my marantz player quality if not better.I bought those 650w power supplies on special and the theory is you can never have enough power when it comes to music (increases dynamic response and lowers noise floor.I am running two supplies because any type of electric motor will induce noise on the power line.So the soundcard+mobo run on one with no fans, motors etc.I chose the cheap Foxconn board for its onboard graphics etc,A graphic card would cause EMF radiaton that I dont want.For that I have a foxconn X38 A DIGTAL LIFE with all the bells and whistles.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
Seafire
Hi Zero Cool.
I think you have missed the point.I am not trying to build a multi media server,but a dedicated audiophile pc for music and music alone to replace my mid to hi end Marantz cd player.My goal is a music server with at least my marantz player quality if not better.I bought those 650w power supplies on special and the theory is you can never have enough power when it comes to music (increases dynamic response and lowers noise floor.I am running two supplies because any type of electric motor will induce noise on the power line.So the soundcard+mobo run on one with no fans, motors etc.I chose the cheap Foxconn board for its onboard graphics etc,A graphic card would cause EMF radiaton that I dont want.For that I have a foxconn X38 A DIGTAL LIFE with all the bells and whistles.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
Seafire
I dont think you grasp how switch mode power supplies are implemented.... I like you project though and will look forward to following your progress.
You think a graphics card embedded in your motherboard uses a different bus and some how is not as linked to everything else in your system as one you put in a slot?
Switch mode psu
Hi Theo,
I don't know much about the electronic workings of switch mo supplies except that they convert AC/DC with hi speed switching and alter the on / off according to demand to reduce energy wastage.From what I understand the need a low pass coil filter and a hi pass caps to filter out the switching noise and rippel.From research on the internet it was suggested to isolate all things motorized on to one psu as these could induce noise as well as cause the psu to alter it's switching according to fan speed etc.The other psu feeds a constant mobo and sound card only.The overkill wattage is just that I got these psu's on special and they are custom made and I thought this would ensure better quality than the one's that come std with cases.
As far as the graphics card is concerned my theory is as follows.
As this pc is for music only I wanted a graphics solution that is not power hungry.Although they share the same bus, many mobo's give preference to their onboard graphics and have been designed and tested with it and are usually less power hungry as well as emmiting less emf noise.
Please feel free to correct me
Seafire
I dont think you grasp how switch mode power supplies are implemented.... I like you project though and will look forward to following your progress.
You think a graphics card embedded in your motherboard uses a different bus and some how is not as linked to everything else in your system as one you put in a slot?
Hi Theo,
I don't know much about the electronic workings of switch mo supplies except that they convert AC/DC with hi speed switching and alter the on / off according to demand to reduce energy wastage.From what I understand the need a low pass coil filter and a hi pass caps to filter out the switching noise and rippel.From research on the internet it was suggested to isolate all things motorized on to one psu as these could induce noise as well as cause the psu to alter it's switching according to fan speed etc.The other psu feeds a constant mobo and sound card only.The overkill wattage is just that I got these psu's on special and they are custom made and I thought this would ensure better quality than the one's that come std with cases.
As far as the graphics card is concerned my theory is as follows.
As this pc is for music only I wanted a graphics solution that is not power hungry.Although they share the same bus, many mobo's give preference to their onboard graphics and have been designed and tested with it and are usually less power hungry as well as emmiting less emf noise.
Please feel free to correct me
Seafire
Digital v Digital
There is a really interesting question earlier in this thread that no-one has picked up on: when using a PC purely as a digital transport, does a cheap on-board coaxial SPDIF output sound worse than one using a high quality soundcard?
Inseparable from this question is that of driver support, of course . . .
I just built the Item Audio media server which pointedly doesn't mess about with ridiculously overpowered and massively pollutant switching power supplies at all, in favour of one very well judged linear regulated (audiophile type) PSU that is precisely no more powerful than it needs to be.
However, I'm also drawn to the Computer Audiophile recipe that strongly favours the Lynx or Xonar STX card over the on-board coax of the Zotac Ion board. Other than building it, I suppose there's no way of knowing whether the better-specified hardware and (probably) better audio drivers of the Lynx or (new) ASIO drivers for the STX will result in better sound quality.
Either way, I'm still disgusted by the though of 2x 650W supplies!
There is a really interesting question earlier in this thread that no-one has picked up on: when using a PC purely as a digital transport, does a cheap on-board coaxial SPDIF output sound worse than one using a high quality soundcard?
Inseparable from this question is that of driver support, of course . . .
I just built the Item Audio media server which pointedly doesn't mess about with ridiculously overpowered and massively pollutant switching power supplies at all, in favour of one very well judged linear regulated (audiophile type) PSU that is precisely no more powerful than it needs to be.
However, I'm also drawn to the Computer Audiophile recipe that strongly favours the Lynx or Xonar STX card over the on-board coax of the Zotac Ion board. Other than building it, I suppose there's no way of knowing whether the better-specified hardware and (probably) better audio drivers of the Lynx or (new) ASIO drivers for the STX will result in better sound quality.
Either way, I'm still disgusted by the though of 2x 650W supplies!
Seafire,
back to your original question, I don't think you will hear noticeable difference between coax inputs between the soundcards, since you said that you will be using a very barebone Windows XP installation. The most noticeable difference should be the DAC+Filter+Op Amp components from the STX soundcard. I am eager to see your results against the Marantz and Rotel analog outputs.
back to your original question, I don't think you will hear noticeable difference between coax inputs between the soundcards, since you said that you will be using a very barebone Windows XP installation. The most noticeable difference should be the DAC+Filter+Op Amp components from the STX soundcard. I am eager to see your results against the Marantz and Rotel analog outputs.
Digital v Digital II
However good the STX is as a soundcard, it's still hamstrung by being inside the computer, sharing a cheap and nasty switching power supply. So getting digital out to a half decent DAC with a separate, half decent power supply, is very likely to improve on the CD player.
If it doesn't, you'll have plenty of scope to upgrade your DAC until it does!
However good the STX is as a soundcard, it's still hamstrung by being inside the computer, sharing a cheap and nasty switching power supply. So getting digital out to a half decent DAC with a separate, half decent power supply, is very likely to improve on the CD player.
If it doesn't, you'll have plenty of scope to upgrade your DAC until it does!
Sounds like a serious music server Seafire! I'm still pondering over the STX - I currently run a coax output from my motherboard Realtek ALC 888 sound card to the DAC in my Naim Supernait. I'm wondering if the coax digital output from the STX will offer a cleaner sound (although the STX headphone sockets are the real attraction here). Anyone have any thoughts on whether the digital coax output on the STX will also offer an improvement over cheapo motherboard sound card digital outputs?
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