Hello,
i have a question about the distortion of mine aleph 5. I've been working on the amp for a couple of years now slow but i finely am in the final stage,....i hope.
Last night i was at the lab of a colleague of mine and we've tested one of my mono aleph 5. And came to the conclusion that there is a nasty distortion when we are putting more like 21,1 Watt (13 V in 8 Ohm ) and that looks like this:
It's about 0,025 % THD at 400Hz (nakamichi t-100)
At this point the distortion is building up to te point that the output is visable clipping at around 78 Watt ( 25 V in 8 Ohm ) then it looks like this:
And another picture at 15 volts into 8 ohm where you can see the sharp edge of the distortion and that flank is at almost the bottom of the sine.
We tried finding out the problem here and i've searched the forum for a solution. i find that there is maybe a problem with R17 the 4,75K resistor in a thread for the aleph 30
aleph 30 thread
because i'm using a 2x30 volt tranny that gives about 38 á 40 Volt DC. is that maybe the problem that i have to change the R17 to a higer resistance ???
Here are some more pictures about my amp
i have a question about the distortion of mine aleph 5. I've been working on the amp for a couple of years now slow but i finely am in the final stage,....i hope.
Last night i was at the lab of a colleague of mine and we've tested one of my mono aleph 5. And came to the conclusion that there is a nasty distortion when we are putting more like 21,1 Watt (13 V in 8 Ohm ) and that looks like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's about 0,025 % THD at 400Hz (nakamichi t-100)
At this point the distortion is building up to te point that the output is visable clipping at around 78 Watt ( 25 V in 8 Ohm ) then it looks like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And another picture at 15 volts into 8 ohm where you can see the sharp edge of the distortion and that flank is at almost the bottom of the sine.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
We tried finding out the problem here and i've searched the forum for a solution. i find that there is maybe a problem with R17 the 4,75K resistor in a thread for the aleph 30
aleph 30 thread
because i'm using a 2x30 volt tranny that gives about 38 á 40 Volt DC. is that maybe the problem that i have to change the R17 to a higer resistance ???
Here are some more pictures about my amp
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Very nice amps.
If I understand you correctly, you have about 0.025% distortion at 21.1Watt and the amp clips grossly at 78Watt.
Looking at the specs of the stock unit, the amp is only capable of giving 60 Watt and a distortion of 0.025% is about the lowest I've seen in the Pass Labs forum.
If this is correct, your amps are fine.
What's the distortion at say 55Watt?
/Hugo
If I understand you correctly, you have about 0.025% distortion at 21.1Watt and the amp clips grossly at 78Watt.
Looking at the specs of the stock unit, the amp is only capable of giving 60 Watt and a distortion of 0.025% is about the lowest I've seen in the Pass Labs forum.
If this is correct, your amps are fine.
What's the distortion at say 55Watt?
/Hugo
hhhmm oke butt the kind of distortion is not normal i think the sharp edges on it are in my eyes some what hard. for THD at 55 Watt i most make a visit to my friend whit the right measure equipment.
or maybe i wrote the wrong numbers down while my friend was calling them ?? I was late last night so that could happen but the nasty distortion remains
or maybe i wrote the wrong numbers down while my friend was calling them ?? I was late last night so that could happen but the nasty distortion remains
I would say that your bias is running low and/or the current gain
of the current source is too high. The distortion you see is the
current source shutting off on negative current swing.
For optimal performance you want to confirm that the positive
current source doesn't contribute more than 50% of the
current (this need not be an exact figure) and then that the
bias current is greater than 1/2 the current expected into the
load with any particular waveform. For a 50 watt amp, I expect
this to be about 1.8 amps.
of the current source is too high. The distortion you see is the
current source shutting off on negative current swing.
For optimal performance you want to confirm that the positive
current source doesn't contribute more than 50% of the
current (this need not be an exact figure) and then that the
bias current is greater than 1/2 the current expected into the
load with any particular waveform. For a 50 watt amp, I expect
this to be about 1.8 amps.
Hi,
the 453R are quite precise but only for one special amp.
The best way to get it right is to measure ac-current-gain with a pot replacing R21. If you have set it to 50% you can measure the pot and replace it with a resistor (or leave it in).
In my Aleph5 klone the following R´s where measured (at 2,1A bias):
left channel:
66,2% 390R
55,6% 470R
47,0% 560R
right channel:
67,1% 390R
56,3% 470R
47,6% 560R
I drew a graph with excel and found 525R / 540R for the left and right channel.
Eventually I put in 500R in the left and right channel......
William
the 453R are quite precise but only for one special amp.
The best way to get it right is to measure ac-current-gain with a pot replacing R21. If you have set it to 50% you can measure the pot and replace it with a resistor (or leave it in).
In my Aleph5 klone the following R´s where measured (at 2,1A bias):
left channel:
66,2% 390R
55,6% 470R
47,0% 560R
right channel:
67,1% 390R
56,3% 470R
47,6% 560R
I drew a graph with excel and found 525R / 540R for the left and right channel.
Eventually I put in 500R in the left and right channel......
William
Oké
yesterday i tried a 453R resistor at R21. It liked that the level at witch the distortion began is raised to 16V into 8 ohm. So we can say its a AC Current Gain issue.
But to avoid any confusion about AC current gain you must explain me how i can measure that. maybe just explain in clear words where AC current gain stands for.
Most i measure/calculate the input current and measure/calculate the output current ??
In my eye's gain is a number not a percentage ???? because of the English I'm a bit confused.
When i know how to get the ac current gain then I can do the same as you William and calculate the exact value for R21 and place a nice dale resistor there and enjoy a bit of music..... or start building me another Pass amp !!
yesterday i tried a 453R resistor at R21. It liked that the level at witch the distortion began is raised to 16V into 8 ohm. So we can say its a AC Current Gain issue.
But to avoid any confusion about AC current gain you must explain me how i can measure that. maybe just explain in clear words where AC current gain stands for.
Most i measure/calculate the input current and measure/calculate the output current ??
In my eye's gain is a number not a percentage ???? because of the English I'm a bit confused.
When i know how to get the ac current gain then I can do the same as you William and calculate the exact value for R21 and place a nice dale resistor there and enjoy a bit of music..... or start building me another Pass amp !!
Oke i was bad on the searching part.
Now i know it and here is a link to the correct thread
Proper Current Source Adjustment
and as attachment the qoute of mr Pass.
i will do the measurement later this week maybe after i complete the other channel
Now i know it and here is a link to the correct thread
Proper Current Source Adjustment
and as attachment the qoute of mr Pass.
i will do the measurement later this week maybe after i complete the other channel
Hi,
I don´t want to confuse you but here´s another method:
1. Set the output to something like a 5-10V sinus (8 or 4 ohms)
2. Measure the voltage over each current source fet´s source resistors
3. add all of the voltages and devide by the source resistor value. Now you´ve got the current from the current source
4. measure the voltage over the output resistors and devide by their combined value. Now you´ve got the total output current
5. Devide the C.S. current by the total current et voilà the AC-Current-Gain
William
I don´t want to confuse you but here´s another method:
1. Set the output to something like a 5-10V sinus (8 or 4 ohms)
2. Measure the voltage over each current source fet´s source resistors
3. add all of the voltages and devide by the source resistor value. Now you´ve got the current from the current source
4. measure the voltage over the output resistors and devide by their combined value. Now you´ve got the total output current
5. Devide the C.S. current by the total current et voilà the AC-Current-Gain
William
Oke did some testing yesterday with the R21. The AC current gain is set properly. The dc bias is almost 2 amps total. With +/- 40V rail i could pull out something about 23,5 Vrms into 8 ohm thus 69 Watt with THD+N under 0,1%.
I also completed the other channel ! But I measured some 50/100 Hz noise from the mains i think on the output.
We have checked the powersupplyconnections with a old tek scope with differential input at the connection between the rectifier diodes and the big caps and measured those nice diode currents voltage drops over these connections. I'll check these next week after i connected these amps to my system !!!
Thanks Nelson and Jaap Pees ( for his test bench and knowledge ) and the others for pointing me in the right direction. Will email you my project for the diypass website soon.
gr Jaac
I also completed the other channel ! But I measured some 50/100 Hz noise from the mains i think on the output.
We have checked the powersupplyconnections with a old tek scope with differential input at the connection between the rectifier diodes and the big caps and measured those nice diode currents voltage drops over these connections. I'll check these next week after i connected these amps to my system !!!
Thanks Nelson and Jaap Pees ( for his test bench and knowledge ) and the others for pointing me in the right direction. Will email you my project for the diypass website soon.
gr Jaac
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