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Old 26th January 2008, 02:41 PM   #1911
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I am just in the process of buying the parts for two F4 to be used in Mono. I have read through the thread, but to be honest, I am not clear on some advises, so please help to clarify:

1. Power-transformers:
From the Schema I understand that we need 2*18V for one channel. Papa stated that 300VA is what he used.

But what does this now mean exactly:
- One 300VA-Transformer for both channel with 4 windings each 18V, so that the two channel are seperated ?
= 4 Windings or two TRansformers for Stereo, two bridges, two full capacitor banks
- Or is the standard-design not a Mono-Psu per Channel, which would mean in the F4 the same Winding is used for both Channel ? = 2 Windings 18V for Stereo. one bridge, but two capcitor banks
- Or even the same two capacitor-bank are used for both channels ?, so one psu and the same +/-23Volts go to each channel ?

2. For Stereo:
- I guess ideally both channels are completely separated, as well in the PSU, so independent windings, bridge rectifiers, capacitors, right ?
- So ideally, even two transformers in one enclosure for one F4 / two channels, Right ?

Soooo....

- IS this as well still vaild if I don't want to use it as a Stereo-Amp, but use it as a Mono-Block ? Instead of 4 Windinge / two Transformers: Would be One TRansformer / two windings (and one following bridge / one capacitor-bank) be enough ?

...in the case of stereo the channel separaton is important, everybody knows this, but in the case of amplifing the negative and positive half of the same wave: Is this still the same requirement ?

3. Has the LED any function on the circuit or is this only to show: "the amp is powered on" ? If it is really only for showing it is "on" I will skip it, if it is important to the circuit, which one exacty to buy ? I have not found a 645nm 1.6V, 1ma-Type...I you want to do me a favour, the farnell-parts-number wold be helpfull....

4. LAst question: The beauty of F4 is obviously the few parts in the signalpath...so I guess it would be helpful to get the best parts available...any suggestions ? HAs anyone played with this so far (normal Panasonic caps vs Blackgates, normal resistors vs Caddocks, standard bridge-rectifier vs Schottkies...)?

Thanks for your hints...
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Old 26th January 2008, 02:55 PM   #1912
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Quote:
Originally posted by kraljmatjaz
I know i am late, but is there any chance i could get a set of PCB for this F4 amp?

Ciao,
Boris

Head on over to: WTB: F4 PCB boards - in the Trading Post forum of diyAudio Forums. Peter Daniel has a group buy going.
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:00 PM   #1913
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blitz
I am just in the process of buying the parts for two F4 to be used in Mono. I have read through the thread...

Thanks for your hints...

You will find most of these answers in the first half of this thread.

Also, check out: WTB: F4 PCB boards - in the Trading Post forum of diyAudio Forums for more info about the power supply process. There is more than one way to use your power supply--it's your choice as to how complex you want to get.
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:02 PM   #1914
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Carpenter, I have read through the first half of the thread, but still my understanding is not clear from hat has been written. What is your recommendation ?

Beleive me, I would have not asked if I would got it from what was written, so please be a bit more co-operative than only to tell me that I should read it again...thanks for the effort & patience.
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:05 PM   #1915
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blitz
Carpenter, I have read through the first half of the thread, but still my understanding is not clear from hat has been written. What is your recommendation ?

Beleive me, I would have not asked if I would got it from what was written, so please be a bit more co-operative than only to tell me that I should read it again...thanks for the effort & patience.

Go the the second half of the reply. Peter Daniel is selling power supply pcbs that satisfy all your requirements!
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:10 PM   #1916
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blitz
I am just in the process of buying the parts for two F4 to be used in Mono. I have read through the thread, but to be honest, I am not clear on some advises, so please help to clarify:

1. Power-transformers:
From the Schema I understand that we need 2*18V for one channel. Papa stated that 300VA is what he used.

But what does this now mean exactly:
- One 300VA-Transformer for both channel with 4 windings each 18V, so that the two channel are seperated ?
= 4 Windings or two TRansformers for Stereo, two bridges, two full capacitor banks
- Or is the standard-design not a Mono-Psu per Channel, which would mean in the F4 the same Winding is used for both Channel ? = 2 Windings 18V for Stereo. one bridge, but two capcitor banks
- Or even the same two capacitor-bank are used for both channels ?, so one psu and the same +/-23Volts go to each channel ?

2. For Stereo:
- I guess ideally both channels are completely separated, as well in the PSU, so independent windings, bridge rectifiers, capacitors, right ?
- So ideally, even two transformers in one enclosure for one F4 / two channels, Right ?

Soooo....

- IS this as well still vaild if I don't want to use it as a Stereo-Amp, but use it as a Mono-Block ? Instead of 4 Windinge / two Transformers: Would be One TRansformer / two windings (and one following bridge / one capacitor-bank) be enough ?

...in the case of stereo the channel separaton is important, everybody knows this, but in the case of amplifing the negative and positive half of the same wave: Is this still the same requirement ?

3. Has the LED any function on the circuit or is this only to show: "the amp is powered on" ? If it is really only for showing it is "on" I will skip it, if it is important to the circuit, which one exacty to buy ? I have not found a 645nm 1.6V, 1ma-Type...I you want to do me a favour, the farnell-parts-number wold be helpfull....

4. LAst question: The beauty of F4 is obviously the few parts in the signalpath...so I guess it would be helpful to get the best parts available...any suggestions ? HAs anyone played with this so far (normal Panasonic caps vs Blackgates, normal resistors vs Caddocks, standard bridge-rectifier vs Schottkies...)?

Thanks for your hints...
1. It is the standard-design not a Mono-Psu per Channel, which would mean in the F4 the same Winding is used for both Channel = 2 Windings 18V for Stereo, one bridge, the same two capacitor-bank are used for both channels, so one psu and the same +/-23Volts go to each channel

2. Ideally, two transformers in one enclosure for one F4 would be nice

3. If you are referring to LED on front panel, it only shows if amp is ON and you can skip it.
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:24 PM   #1917
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Mike,
My brain has been eaten by the Cold Germs From Hell...there's something else that I should have mentioned above: Power supply.
Are the two amps running on more or less equivalent power supplies? It's not always easy to compare, especially if you're using different transformers, etc., but when in doubt throw another couple zillion uF into the filter. If can have a profound effect on the perceived bass response.
The Threshold S-500 came stock with 4 big computer grade caps, something on the order of 30000uF ea. Sounds like a lot. Worked pretty well. Then I got a wild hair and roughly doubled it to around a quarter-Farad per chassis. Improved the bass considerably. Just something to ponder as you're listening.

Grey
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:26 PM   #1918
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Peter, thanks. You are confirming what I was assuming...so the rela high-end-solution for a F4 is Dual-Mono Supply, so two Transformers for stereo or 4 Windings and two capacitor banks...

OK...

Last Question: What is your recommendation for a cost no object-monoblock ? As well complete mono-psus as described above or will that not really make a difference in your experience when amplifying the different halve of the same signal ?
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:38 PM   #1919
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blitz
Peter, thanks. You are confirming what I was assuming...so the rela high-end-solution for a F4 is Dual-Mono Supply, so two Transformers for stereo or 4 Windings and two capacitor banks...

OK...

Last Question: What is your recommendation for a cost no object-monoblock ? As well complete mono-psus as described above or will that not really make a difference in your experience when amplifying the different halve of the same signal ?
I'd rather use two separate transformers. The wire gauge for quadruple windings (assuming same transformer power) will be much smaller and that may affect dynamics.

I assume you are talking about balanced monoblocks? In such case I would use common supply for both halves.
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Old 26th January 2008, 03:40 PM   #1920
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BTW, Percy Audio has Nichicons 15,000F 63V KG Super Through on special at $16.95 each!

I used them in Zv9 and they perform really well.
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