X5 enough drive for B&W 802D's ?
Hi new to the forum, but not to Pass Labs. I have bought an X5 which is 125w x 5 and am using it in my HT system. The front L&R are B&W 802D's which are very efficient. In Stereo mode there is no clipping and the Bass doesn't distort. Sounds excellent, but I'm afraid if I push the volume the bass might distort. I need to run this test.
Do I need something like a 250.5 to drive the 802D's or should I be happy with the X5. I usually listen to Classic Music and not extra loud, normal.
I found the X5 excellent after selling off all my Mark Levinson 436's, 433's and was looking to downsize, but fear has set it that I may have downsized too far. Any thoughts from anyone appreciated.
Hi new to the forum, but not to Pass Labs. I have bought an X5 which is 125w x 5 and am using it in my HT system. The front L&R are B&W 802D's which are very efficient. In Stereo mode there is no clipping and the Bass doesn't distort. Sounds excellent, but I'm afraid if I push the volume the bass might distort. I need to run this test.
Do I need something like a 250.5 to drive the 802D's or should I be happy with the X5. I usually listen to Classic Music and not extra loud, normal.
I found the X5 excellent after selling off all my Mark Levinson 436's, 433's and was looking to downsize, but fear has set it that I may have downsized too far. Any thoughts from anyone appreciated.
Nelson Pass said:Why don't you just give it a try with the X5 and see what
you get?
Nelson,
Thanks for the advice. How can I know if there is any distortion in the bass compared to the way that a 250.5 might drive the same speakers.
Do you have any experience with B&W 802D's and your Amps.
By the way I've owned the X1 and thought it was the best Preamp I've ever had.
B&W
I have x-250.5 and very satisfied. (I have Musical Fidelity KW500 too) I think x-250.5 deserves better speakers than 802D.
Since you have a 802D , whatever you drive with it, you won't get satisfactory result. unless, you jump to Jm Lab-Focal wagon. (yes I have electra 1027 be) If you want than I can explain why?
Btw, Full credit goes to Nelson because X-250.5 very good indeed.
Mert
I have x-250.5 and very satisfied. (I have Musical Fidelity KW500 too) I think x-250.5 deserves better speakers than 802D.
Since you have a 802D , whatever you drive with it, you won't get satisfactory result. unless, you jump to Jm Lab-Focal wagon. (yes I have electra 1027 be) If you want than I can explain why?
Btw, Full credit goes to Nelson because X-250.5 very good indeed.
Mert
Re: B&W
Mert,
The 802D's (and 800D's) are used by Abbey Road Studios (considered historically the best recording studio inthe world) and Lucas Film Studios amongst many other professionals, so I have no idea where you get the idea that 802D's are not good speakers. At $12,500 the pair and the references I just gave you one would have to say they must be accepted as good speakers.
I'm wondering what I might be missing ie: detail, depth, general timbre, and the ability to drive bass at higher decibels compared to the 250.5
mert said:
Mert,
The 802D's (and 800D's) are used by Abbey Road Studios (considered historically the best recording studio inthe world) and Lucas Film Studios amongst many other professionals, so I have no idea where you get the idea that 802D's are not good speakers. At $12,500 the pair and the references I just gave you one would have to say they must be accepted as good speakers.
I'm wondering what I might be missing ie: detail, depth, general timbre, and the ability to drive bass at higher decibels compared to the 250.5
B&W
misterdoggy,
The mentioned studios are paid and donated by B&W in order to use B&W speakers.
When we listen music, we don't need to monitor on it. we simply listen and enjoy. Let's leave monitoring job to industry professionals.
The Abbey road studios were good in PAST, but not TODAY.
The new Electra 1037 be has 94db sensivity, it appears as a easier load than 802D as far as X5 concerned.
mert
misterdoggy,
The mentioned studios are paid and donated by B&W in order to use B&W speakers.
When we listen music, we don't need to monitor on it. we simply listen and enjoy. Let's leave monitoring job to industry professionals.
The Abbey road studios were good in PAST, but not TODAY.
The new Electra 1037 be has 94db sensivity, it appears as a easier load than 802D as far as X5 concerned.
mert
Well in defense of Bowers and Wilkens 802D, I have had lots of speakers Klipsch, Mcintosh, B&W, and others and have run these babies with a Krell FPB 400CX, Mark Levinson 436, McIntosh, Parasound, Hafler and the list goes on and now Pass Labs and can say that I am fully satisfied with them. Not bright, great timbre, full bass, lots of detail with the diamond tweeters, big soundstage, and of course depends on the source.
Re: B&W
Mert,
I am new to this forum, but not to Hifi forums and you should not offer advice unless you have first hand experience about anything. How you could say 802D's needed to be changed because you read it or heard it somewhere is "reckless".
I forgive you though, and I won't feel bad about speakers I really love anyhow.
Still thinking about a 250.5. The X5 seems to drive them OK but the final test will be when my dac arrives. I am using a lexicon mc12bv5 as a preamp for stereo and find this combo lacks a little bass umphhh. Perhaps a Dac will bring that out, or the addition of a preamp, or maybe a 250.5. The Mark Levinson 436 had more bass for the moment.
mert said:No Sir. I only saw its pictures
Mert,
I am new to this forum, but not to Hifi forums and you should not offer advice unless you have first hand experience about anything. How you could say 802D's needed to be changed because you read it or heard it somewhere is "reckless".
I forgive you though, and I won't feel bad about speakers I really love anyhow.
Still thinking about a 250.5. The X5 seems to drive them OK but the final test will be when my dac arrives. I am using a lexicon mc12bv5 as a preamp for stereo and find this combo lacks a little bass umphhh. Perhaps a Dac will bring that out, or the addition of a preamp, or maybe a 250.5. The Mark Levinson 436 had more bass for the moment.
The 802s are excellent speakers. However, in my experience, they don't really gel at very low volumes, they need to be cranked up a bit to sound good. Your X5 is a real amp, so I'm sure it would drive them well, but you could improve the end result by getting a second amp just to drive the bass end, with your existing amp doing the mid/highs. A decent 150-200W class A/B would be fine
pinkmouse said:
Pinkmouse,
Biamped speakers are the way to go, but they would ned to be the same amp or I would run in to Gain problems. Do YOU think that a 250.5 would find more Bass at lower decibels?
Or, there would be so little difference that I would need to A/B 10 times to really be sure or would it be night/day right away in your face difference.
B&w
friends,
I had B&W speakers in past. Before I bought electra 1027 be, 802D was in my list. I listened with Classe gear and didn't enjoy with it. Simply because I don't want to be benefited through 802D's perfect neither monitoring quality, nor every single detail. I like music itself as whole. In my opinion, Focal does this particularly good to my ears. With Pass x-250.5 amp., (pure class A first 30-35 watts enough to sing) I had no feeling that I was listenining something ''utopia Light'', almost reached ''utopia level''.
With B&W speakers, I have a feeling that I listen gear not the music. Since I have plenty of gear, I don't let none of them has sonic priority over another. I have system with snergy: Musical Fidelity Kw500, DM25 Dac and Transport. I have Pass X-250.5 paired with Boulder 810 pre. All cables from Vandenhul.(Mc gold, First, second, Integration....magnum, reveletion, supernova)Power conditioning from Exact Power ep-15a and Ps Audio Power Dir. 3.5)
I think for one person, my gear appears enough reference. I know a bit about Hi-End.
X-250.5 deserves better speaker than 802D and 1027 be. For example Wilson Sophia2 , Avalon Eidelon , Alto Utopia...That is so good. But definetly not withn802D,801D,800D,799,798.....
Now you can ask why I don' have Wilson Audio? Budget? No.
Simply because wilson doesn't have Beryllium tweeter technology. Never ever will get or manufacture own one. Sad, isn't it? He is making world almost best speakers but using old titanium tweeters from Focal's dump area. That is correct. One thing for sure, today, there is not like a superior combination of Beryllium tweeter with double w sandwich membrane powerflower mid driver.
A few pictures of my setups....
friends,
I had B&W speakers in past. Before I bought electra 1027 be, 802D was in my list. I listened with Classe gear and didn't enjoy with it. Simply because I don't want to be benefited through 802D's perfect neither monitoring quality, nor every single detail. I like music itself as whole. In my opinion, Focal does this particularly good to my ears. With Pass x-250.5 amp., (pure class A first 30-35 watts enough to sing) I had no feeling that I was listenining something ''utopia Light'', almost reached ''utopia level''.
With B&W speakers, I have a feeling that I listen gear not the music. Since I have plenty of gear, I don't let none of them has sonic priority over another. I have system with snergy: Musical Fidelity Kw500, DM25 Dac and Transport. I have Pass X-250.5 paired with Boulder 810 pre. All cables from Vandenhul.(Mc gold, First, second, Integration....magnum, reveletion, supernova)Power conditioning from Exact Power ep-15a and Ps Audio Power Dir. 3.5)
I think for one person, my gear appears enough reference. I know a bit about Hi-End.
X-250.5 deserves better speaker than 802D and 1027 be. For example Wilson Sophia2 , Avalon Eidelon , Alto Utopia...That is so good. But definetly not withn802D,801D,800D,799,798.....
Now you can ask why I don' have Wilson Audio? Budget? No.
Simply because wilson doesn't have Beryllium tweeter technology. Never ever will get or manufacture own one. Sad, isn't it? He is making world almost best speakers but using old titanium tweeters from Focal's dump area. That is correct. One thing for sure, today, there is not like a superior combination of Beryllium tweeter with double w sandwich membrane powerflower mid driver.
A few pictures of my setups....
Musical Fidelity, Van Den Hul... and now, Focal
Netlist said:
Hugo,
I think Mert needed to "defend" his knowledge with showing off his Gear. Whether or not he's got a load of gear, or someone else has a load of gear, does not make them experts.
Not saying that Mert is or is not an expert.
But to point out someone's speakers, and top of the line speaker like 802D and say its not good...... Well its not nice to tell people they have poor equipment.
The answer I was searching was about the apparent difference I could attain between the X5 and X250.5 with these speakers.
I could put up a picture of my setup and no one would think it shabby at all, but it doesn't give me the right to tell you your $12k speakers aren't any good.
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