sa/12e or sa/4e or s/550e - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Pass Labs

Pass Labs This forum is dedicated to Pass Labs discussion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th December 2006, 08:11 PM   #1
jfrago is offline jfrago  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Default sa/12e or sa/4e or s/550e

I like the melt in your mouth quality of SA/12e's but I am also looking at the SA/4e and the S/550e for our system that has wilson watt puppies 5.1's as speakers.

It will take some tinkering like replacing caps and etc.

Does anybody have thoughts on this - Nelson if you see please this let me know what you think?

Thanks.
__________________
jfr
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2006, 08:30 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
jacco vermeulen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: At the sea front, Rotterdam or Curaçao
Send a message via Yahoo to jacco vermeulen
My personal favorite is the Threshold SA/4e.
More than enough power, and in combination with the right stuff such as the one you mentioned far more delicate than the other two.
And rejuvenation cost will amount to a whole lot less than for two SA/12e armored vehicles.

Considering that the SA/4e and SA/12e are basically the same circuit, it's interesting that they do not sound identical. (to me, SA/1s are major league, pecunia and pleasure wise)
__________________
The buck stops Here
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 01:44 AM   #3
jfrago is offline jfrago  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Default pecunia and pleasure wise?

I don't know what you mean. Are you saying the SA1's the amps of choice?
__________________
jfr
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 12:02 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
jacco vermeulen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: At the sea front, Rotterdam or Curaçao
Send a message via Yahoo to jacco vermeulen
I was saying i've found the SA/1 duo the most refined of the Threshold bunch, the SA/4e comes second at 2/3d of the SA/1 cost.
Refurbishing costs for two SA/1s may not be substantially higher than the ticket for reviving a stereophonic SA/4e. SA/1s have a total of 240.000uF electrolytics, the SA/4e has 186 kuF.

At nearly 30" length and about 125 lbs each , the SA/12e may be the biggest, compared to the other two i found them less delicate if there's no need for a 275 watts powerstation.
All subjective of course, NP may be in the strangling mood if he reads this.
Anyone of the mentioned 4 is likely to be a +15 year old.(don't know when the last set of SA/12e was made)
The costs will be substantial if you have to do a full reincarnation job on a set of SA/12e's, swapping 500kuF of electrolytics at that voltage rating will be a b*t*h

The SA/12e duo had an MSRP that was 2 1/4 times the one of the SA/4e, i can't imagine used ones go for the same price. For these amplifiers i wouldn't go the cheap way of throwing in a bunch of NOS electrolytics.
After refurbishing you still have a bigger risk of blowing an output stage at some point, TO3s may want to live forever but they don't. If an output stage blows before you've stepped over to another classic amplifier, the pain for having to exchange an output stage of a SA/12e will also be nearly 3 times as much.
(a set of SA/12e amps has a total of 128 TO3 devices in the output stages versus 48 in an SA/4e and 80 for the SA/1, Ouch )

__________________
The buck stops Here
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 12:35 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
jacco vermeulen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: At the sea front, Rotterdam or Curaçao
Send a message via Yahoo to jacco vermeulen
Addendum:

Of course, chances of this happening are substantially lower compared to most other brands.
Both the output devices of the SA/4e and the SA/12e are run at less than 2% of their max power rating, compared to the nominal 8 Ohm continuous output power of the amps.
On the other hand, i have infra-red heat distribution pictures of both the SA/1s and the SA4/e.
Not only do they run hot, but even on amplifiers with so much attention to cooling and spreading the load on a great many output devices the temperature variation across the surface of the heatsinks is not ideal.
Still, on economical risc assessment grounds alone, i'd put my money in any used Threshold amplifier model instead of unloading it in a big Krill.

Btw: no intent of confusing you, but have you ever tried a PassLabs Aleph model on your Wilsons ?
My craving for an SA/4e halted after i was formally introduced to the Os.
__________________
The buck stops Here
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 02:23 PM   #6
yup is offline yup
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
I have several years listening experience with the SA/4e. Of course this was almost 15 years ago... That amplifier made a stong impression on me. (That is the reason I am a DIYAudio member now, and why I am currently finishing up an Aleph-X)

Unfortunately I have never had the pleasure of listening to any of the Alpeh's (yet). Can anyone give more details about the different sound character one might expect from the SA/4e, Aleph, and AX's

Thanks,
Jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 08:04 PM   #7
The one and only
 
Nelson Pass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
The Alephs and the Wilsons are not my favorite combination.
The Aleph X's do a better job with bottom end control, and
my favorites are the X600 and X600.5 for this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2006, 09:34 PM   #8
jfrago is offline jfrago  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
nelson,

Thanks for your reply.

The 600's are beyond our budget so I was thinking of either the sa/4e, because I like to rebuild or the 350.5's. Any thoughts?
__________________
jfr
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2007, 06:04 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GRASSE (France)
Quote:
Can anyone give more details about the different sound character one might expect from the SA/4e, Aleph, and AX's

I know very well the SA/3.9e and the SA/6e: I own them, and I have also lessoned to a SA/4e.
You can have information on my website: http://edcmsa39.free.fr then click on the Threshold section on the left, and if you want us to discuss about the various caracteristics of them, no pb...

We will compare the SA/3.9e (regular version and power supply upgraded version) with the SA/6e in exactly the same confguration in the coming months. And if we find a SA/4e we will add it to the comparison.

Best regards,
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2007, 08:14 PM   #10
The one and only
 
Nelson Pass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by jfrago
nelson,

Thanks for your reply.

The 600's are beyond our budget so I was thinking of either the sa/4e, because I like to rebuild or the 350.5's. Any thoughts?
I recall that the SA/4e did a good job controlling the Wilson
Watt/Puppies that we had back then. I have not heard them
recently.

  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Threshold S/550e to SA/4e conversion? Barry1 Pass Labs 2 1st January 2009 05:43 PM
Threshold S/550e Service Manual Barry1 Pass Labs 10 24th May 2007 01:35 PM
Threshold S/550e Bias advice Barry1 Pass Labs 0 28th April 2007 03:09 PM
Threshold S/550e Info EchoWars Solid State 7 9th July 2006 07:03 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:23 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2