Whats wrong with the picture?

K-amps · 2006-11-18 1:47 pm

I tend to give people the benefit of doubt, but you guys tell me if I was duped into buying a Toroid I thought was a 2kVA Part.

It is pictured here in the middle next to 3 different 1 kVA toroids that I already own and know they are 1 kVA. The one on the left is a Plitron, the top one is Antek and the large one on the bottom is a Hammond.

While I know "size aint everything".... I cannot get over the thought that this no name part cannot be 2kVA . :cannotbe:

(PS: I will not disclose the DIY member who sold it to me for he may come clean on his own...)

Best,
K-Dupee

K-amps · 2006-11-18 1:58 pm

To be fair, the supposed 2kVA part is slightly taller than the Plitron and the Hammond Toroid but about the same as the Antek...

As far as mass goes...

Antek 1kVA : 15.0 lbs
Plitron 1kVA : 15.5 lbs
Hammond 1kva : 23.0 lbs

2kva "supposed" 14.5 lbs....

jacco vermeulen · 2006-11-18 2:13 pm

K,

could be in good faith, half of the population here can't recognise their own dickcheney if it was electronic.

I've got a couple of 1kW Plitrons, and find them pretty sizy compared to most other brands.
Got some biggies in the 1.8 to 2kW range from other toroid manufacturers, some are not much bigger than the Plitrons overall but each one easily outweighs them.
If your 2kWatter weighs less than the 1kW Canadian, you've been conned imo.

jacco vermeulen · 2006-11-18 2:29 pm

Yeah,

Hammond transformers makes you vision chunky Canadian dames in lumber shirts that offer the option of armwrestling you under the table or the stretched embarassment of the same by outdrinking you. (i hate to see Ozzy toroids, and i stopped JB shots contests with women)

lineup · 2006-11-18 6:54 pm

K-amps said:
As far as mass goes...

Antek 1kVA : 15.0 lbs
Plitron 1kVA : 15.5 lbs
Hammond 1kva : 23.0 lbs

2kva "supposed" 14.5 lbs....

Even if weight is not everything ( wires matters, too )
when it comes to toroid transformers:

Weight DOES NOT LIE

lineup

jacco vermeulen · 2006-11-18 6:56 pm

Tell me about it, i'm at least a 16kVA Donut. :xeye:

Greg Erskine · 2006-11-18 6:58 pm

Hi,

Harbuch Antrim 2kVA toriods are 17kg. Unfortunately I don't know what lbs are anymore but they used to be a lot smaller than kg.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/harbuch/harbuch.htm

regards

lineup · 2006-11-18 7:14 pm

Greg Erskine said:
Harbuch Antrim 2kVA toriods are 17kg. Unfortunately I don't know what lbs are anymore but they used to be a lot smaller than kg.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/harbuch/harbuch.htm

What I recall (not sure):
1 lbs = 0.45 kg
1 kg = 2.2 lbs

17 kg should then be ~37 lbs
( compare to those 1 kVA ~15 lbs )

------------------------------
edit:
found a link about metrics, and
With online conversion service
http://www.curezone.com/conversions.asp

16 oz. = (1 lbs.) 453.5 g = 0.453 Kg
1 oz. = 30 g 1 lbs. = 16 oz. (453.5 g)
1 g = 0.35 oz. 1 kg = 2.2 lbs. = 1000 g

lineup · 2006-11-18 9:11 pm

Toroid Tranformer Weight VA rating formula

.

I looked up several Toroid Transformer manufacturers data.

Based on VA ratings / weight data we make up some rough formulas.
I think most makers of transformers use a core material
with almost the same quality.
There are always exceptions, but for the major public main stream market, to affordable prices,
I would say there are only small differences.

Say max +-15 % in VA per core weight.

######################################

Here is my attempt to make such rule of the thumb formulas.

The Toroid Transformer data I used comes in 15 - 4000 VA
and looks like this:

Approximate formulas.

0.6 - 4.5 kg (30 -> 400 VA)
VA = 100 (kg - k) where k= 0.3 -> 0.5

5 - 8.5 kg (500 - 800 VA)
VA = 100 x kg

> 9 kg (1000 - 4000 VA)
1000VA 09.5 kg, 20.9 lbs
2000VA 15.6 kg, 34.3 lbs
3000VA 22.3 kg, 49.0 lbs
4000VA 31.5 kg, 69.3 lbs

Example:
A toroid weighs 1.9 kg. Set k=0.4
VA = 100(1.9-0.4) = 100x1.5
= 150 VA
..................................................................................

Web Reference used:
Shenzhen Okerda Science & Technology Co., Ltd
is a manufacturer specializing in custom designed transformers, coils, and power supplies.

OKERDA HEAD OFFICE (SHENZHEN)
Shenzhen City, Guangdong Province 518110, P.R.China

British Office:
Mr. Hao
Tel: 0044—2089856157, Cell phone: 07830113768
Address: 80B, Coopersale Road, Homerton, Hackney, London, UK E9 6BA

http://www.okerda-tech.com/
.....................................................................................

lineup
Lineup Audio Lab
Audio Mains Transformers Division

The Saint · 2006-11-18 9:36 pm

This is a 4KVA transformer I am using for my prototype 2kw GND Bridge amplifier.

There is no way that transformer is 2kva

steenoe · 2006-11-18 9:52 pm

Normally I wouldnt answer a question like this, but since you ask in the Pass department..........
If that is 2 KVA, then my *** is a hydroplane

Steen

K-amps · 2006-11-18 10:26 pm

The Saint said:
This is a 4KVA transformer I am using for my prototype 2kw GND Bridge amplifier.

There is no way that transformer is 2kva

Now THAT's a knife.

**Said in the Dundee Accent.

K-amps · 2006-11-19 3:28 am

Re: Toroid Tranformer Weight VA rating formula

lineup said:
.

I looked up several Toroid Transformer manufacturers data.

Based on VA ratings / weight data we make up some rough formulas.
I think most makers of transformers use a core material
with almost the same quality.
There are always exceptions, but for the major public main stream market, to affordable prices,
I would say there are only small differences.

Say max +-15 % in VA per core weight.

######################################

Here is my attempt to make such rule of the thumb formulas.

The Toroid Transformer data I used comes in 15 - 4000 VA
and looks like this:

Approximate formulas.

Example:
A toroid weighs 1.9 kg. Set k=0.4
VA = 100(1.9-0.4) = 100x1.5
= 150 VA
..................................................................................

Web Reference used:
Shenzhen Okerda Science & Technology Co., Ltd
is a manufacturer specializing in custom designed transformers, coils, and power supplies.

OKERDA HEAD OFFICE (SHENZHEN)
Shenzhen City, Guangdong Province 518110, P.R.China

British Office:
Mr. Hao
Tel: 0044—2089856157, Cell phone: 07830113768
Address: 80B, Coopersale Road, Homerton, Hackney, London, UK E9 6BA

http://www.okerda-tech.com/
.....................................................................................

lineup
Lineup Audio Lab
Audio Mains Transformers Division

Thanks line-up... now gimmie a source for some cheap Prozac...

djQUAN · 2006-11-19 4:11 am

it can be a 2KVA if it is an autotransformer.

I once bought a 220 to 110V converter rated at 1kVA. I wanted to get the toroid and add a secondary to end up with an isolated transformer.

the toroid inside was the size of a 500VA transformer.

lineup · 2006-11-19 10:54 am

The Saint said:
This is a 4KVA transformer I am using for my prototype 2kw GND Bridge amplifier.

Those Toroids look great, Tony.
I know you have much experience, when comes to good High Power supplying.

Is there any TOROID brand you prefer?
What brand are those in your picture?

Regards
lineup

The Saint · 2006-11-19 11:16 am

Hey Lineup

I always use Hurbuch Electronics Transformers
There is a link from my site
I believe they use Antrim Cores which they import from Ireland

they are excellent quality

K-amps · 2006-11-19 11:31 am

djQUAN said:
it can be a 2KVA if it is an autotransformer.

I once bought a 220 to 110V converter rated at 1kVA. I wanted to get the toroid and add a secondary to end up with an isolated transformer.

the toroid inside was the size of a 500VA transformer.

What I am looking for is regulation capabilities from the tranny not steady 2kW drain. So if it can keep up the rails... I may live with it (grudgingly).

lineup · 2006-11-19 1:57 pm

The Saint said:
Hey Lineup

I always use Harbuch Electronics Transformers
There is a link from my site
I believe they use Antrim Cores which they import from Ireland

they are excellent quality

Thanks, The Saint
I found link to Harbuch in this www.aussieamplifiers.com page:
Heat Sinks and Power Transformers

HARBUCH ELECTRONICS PTY LTD
HORNSBY
NSW 2077 AUSTRALIA
Harbuch Electronics - ANTRIM TOROID STANDARD SIZES / DATA

-----------------------------------
Harbuch toroids:
1000 VA, weight = 07.9 kg, ( 17.4 lbs )
2000 VA, weight = 17.0 kg, ( 37.4 lbs )

lineup

------------------------------------------------------

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

* Antrim homepage:
http://www.antrimtransformers.com/

Antrim Transformers Limited
Northern Ireland

K-amps · 2006-11-19 3:58 pm

37lbs LOL.

jacco vermeulen · 2006-11-19 4:12 pm

My dual 36Vac 2KVA's are 33lbs each, put them on the scale in the bathroom just now.
The sealed ex-army 2KVA separation transformers i'm using weigh in at 46.5lbs.
Posted pics of them a couple of times, the green plastic things.

Whats wrong with the picture?

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