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Old 4th November 2006, 08:16 PM   #1
folkeb is offline folkeb  Norway
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Default Matching issues- I can't believe it!?!

I am at a loss for words. I can't believe the sound in my livingroom. The Aleph 1.2 clones with a BG N decoupling cap are just marvelous! Thank you Mr. Pass!

And now for the strangest of all things - the best by far result is when I have connected the 1.2s straight to my crappy PC out with a minijack and a 5m long cheapo cable. Not even close with a dCS or a highly modded DDDAC directly connected or through the Aleph P or minimax preamps. Cables are Synergistic phase two all the way.

Why why why can't I get the same sound with any of this. All the details and pace seems to disapear with the very much more expensive stuff. I can't live with this!!!

Please help me figure this one out....
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Old 4th November 2006, 11:03 PM   #2
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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no
i can't figure this

looks ... or maybe this case ... sounds like
the world is upside down sometimes
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Old 5th November 2006, 02:41 AM   #3
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What some people call "detail" is actually distortion products in the upper midrange. The question is not whether you have more so-called detail, but whether it sounds like real music. The two are not necessarily the same.
Caution: Go listen to live, unamplified music before jumping to conclusions about which is closer to the truth.
People who go ga-ga over string noise and such are always taken aback when I challenge them with one simple test: Go to a concert. Listen. Close your eyes and pretend, not that it's live music, but that you're listening to a stereo. Got that? Okay, here's the test--do you feel that you want to turn up the bass? The treble? The "detail" control?
Remember that it's real music you're listening to and realize that you're trying to alter reality to fit preconceived notions of "hi-fi" sound.
Think about it.

Grey
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Old 5th November 2006, 10:34 AM   #4
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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Default Re: Matching issues- I can't believe it!?!

Quote:
Originally posted by folkeb
I am at a loss for words. I can't believe the sound in my livingroom. The Aleph 1.2 clones with a BG N decoupling cap are just marvelous! Thank you Mr. Pass!

And now for the strangest of all things - the best by far result is when I have connected the 1.2s straight to my crappy PC out with a minijack and a 5m long cheapo cable. Not even close with a dCS or a highly modded DDDAC directly connected or through the Aleph P or minimax preamps. Cables are Synergistic phase two all the way.

Why why why can't I get the same sound with any of this. All the details and pace seems to disapear with the very much more expensive stuff. I can't live with this!!!

Please help me figure this one out....

just a thought
sometimes crappy PC outputs are capable to drive even 32 Ohms headphones;

try Aleph with some preamp capable to drive loooowish loads,then make conclusions
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Old 5th November 2006, 04:47 PM   #5
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Grey is correct! It is the individual's perception of how they enjoy hearing music. Grey's unamped concert test is the best way to train your ears to a valid baseline.

Other components in the system can make a gret deal of difference as well, like interconnects and the parts you used in your preamp. Personally I've been experimenting with resisters in my attenuator. For a cheap part, they can dramatically affect the characteristic of the sound. So far I really like Yashey/Dale RN55's for the warmth they produce.


Nearly everyone who comes over to my home is simply stunned by the sound quality. To a person the typical reaction is an uncontrolled smile or their jaws drop.

Next they usually run out to the car and get a couple of their favorite CD's they listen to on their home theater set-ups from a "big box" store like Best Buys. Some of the material sounds flat and low bandwidth. They ask where the bass controll is... because it sounds great on their system. Then I'll put in a disc like Fleetwook Mac "The Dance" with bass down to 20hz and they feel their chests vibrating.

Bottom line most people have never heard a system that truely reveals the actual range and quality of the recording.


Running through the PC's audio sub-system, you are hearing a $2 DAC with a $0.25 op amp (if you are lucky), and the digital source is resampled and adjusted for tone and volume through a windows component called Kmixer. Kmixer alone strips out resolution, increases distortion, and alters the music.

Anyway a few more thing to think about.

-David
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Old 5th November 2006, 05:17 PM   #6
folkeb is offline folkeb  Norway
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Thank you for your comments. However, I find it strange that a cheap pc soundcard matches the amps better than anything else available to me. It just sounds so much better than with my other stuff.

Last night I heard a Sibelius "a saga" - not too long ago I went to hear the real thing. My system has never been so "live" before. We're talking details, soundstage and bite. I have read a lot about the Alephs prior to building them. I feel that I have finaly got the sound all the reviewers rave about.

Are there any things I could check/measure to see if there is a technical explaination?

What equipment is known to match well with the Aleph 1.2? I think I need to raid the local stores and see what works. If nothing else, how can I install a volume control device so I don't have to use the standard windows volume control? If I'm not mistaken a pot or a attenuator will change the impedance.

But one thing is certain - if you have a Aleph - change the decoupling cap to a BG N (or something else). This changed a lot in my system.
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Old 6th November 2006, 05:08 PM   #7
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Let me share a different perspective. Excuse me its long.

Talking about "Original Musik" or reproduction of "Original Signals" is subject to the listeners "ears"/preferences/experience in perceiving musik. It seems that doing a analysis with technical equipment to measure audiosignals depends on the broadness of the testers horizon on how, when and what to measure - if measuring at all.

There is Livemusik, and there is canned musik.

Livemusik is as it is. I can play a violinpart 10 times in a row - if my mood stays same-not deviating my techique- each of the 10 times it will be a preicise-clockwork-replica.
But if i change my mood and allow myself to fall into the theme of this very part, as the original composor intended, my interpretation of this work might get an outstanding and unique magic moment. Overshadoving the original- how is that? well its live music we say.

To be honest , with digital music files, CD or DVD, they are usually in such poor constitution that we have to be lucky that good set of musicequipment is able to varnish something into the air that sounds good- and what we hear is anyways a interpretation of a DAC and amps. So why not choose what we like?

But let us contemplate what appears to us while we sitting on our favorite couch and turn on the equipment.
What we have to become honest about is:

1st Law :What we hear is not anymore the original music.
-BUT it will be a original moment to experience.

2nd Law : What we hear is a interpretation of a technology.

3nd Law : It is not the ear that hears, it is the brain, conditioned in its programming through individual experience and preferences that gives the audible signals from the ear the personal "spin".

Yes its true, it we are trained to Live concerts we know more and hear better, BUT after we know more we have to pay more for a conveinient music experience.

If one person is aware of destortion, listening to a very fine set of musicequipment- there we go !
Another person just listening and get in awe and wondersome emotional experience about the music hes just perceiving- while heavy loaded with distortion and bugged with technical flaws the upper person would never do- is as blessed in his joy as the 1rst person. I personal had have things happen that are not logic , but they have been more enjoyable and preferable .
Out of the signals the ear receives, it is the brain that creates a emotional experience, holographic images , its a interpretation of avaiable information.

Especially this 3rd law makes this whole bussines of qualifying audioelectronics in good, better,best and very expensive boring. This is not to say that a 50$ garbage sounds as good as an well craftet Aleph ^^. Good craftmanship,research and engineering has its price -and performance.

Feeling that a piece of music is "just right in tone, pace, detail, stage......it gives the creep, the Sun is going up....." .
What is this?
The listener has to have the concept of what he believes to hear as he experience emotionally the music - and after all, this is how we percieve music- in his beeing BEFOR he is able to pronounce and describe it as a such.

So ultimatly , after the Violinpart has been finished and the last echoes faded off, its gone for ever - digitalising it, wont bring it back- nomatter how fast the electonic. Its been broken in another language and is reproduced in a analogue signal according to the used technology. It is a interpretation -thats it.

And who knows how the violin actually really sounded?
Maybe the next person just like it on CD much better then beeing there in the audience listening the original- Listening the violine is really powerfull and demanding- you dont wanna have this energy 10PM in you livingroom.
And maybe different taste is different truth?
And it is true, after 2 glases of fine cabernet, when both brainhemispheres swinging synchronised and the body is filled with godknows what hormons- we hear and experience different.

It all summs up to "creating a sound we like and enjoy", evolving it as our "ears" evolve.
Yep "ears" do evolve, as taste does..we first start out with cheap wine...years later we have to watch our budget choosing the bottles....
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