Hi,
Will the Klipsch La Scala be a good match for an Aleph5, or will I never get te amp "quite" enough for the high sensitivity of these speakers (104 db/1 watt)??
I am planning to use that pi filter (CLC) thing with 8 * 22000 uF per channel (and a "L" of around 2-3 mH).
Also the impedance has a dip of 4.5 ohm around 55 Hz and a peak of 42 ohm around 2150 Hz. Is that a problem?
Will the Klipsch La Scala be a good match for an Aleph5, or will I never get te amp "quite" enough for the high sensitivity of these speakers (104 db/1 watt)??
I am planning to use that pi filter (CLC) thing with 8 * 22000 uF per channel (and a "L" of around 2-3 mH).
Also the impedance has a dip of 4.5 ohm around 55 Hz and a peak of 42 ohm around 2150 Hz. Is that a problem?
Klipsch and Amplifiers
Hi Duck-Twacy,
Klipsch loudspeakers are extremely unforgiving for bad electronic gear. I speak of experience as I own a pair of Klipschorns.
My greatest sin was selling a pair of Scala's to a custumer owning a Yamaha receiver. It sounded so painfull that I left his appartment in a hurry.......
I settled for a Gas Ampzilla after I found that a cheap Sony integrated amp sounded horrible. Then bought a Crown D-150, then SAE MkIV-DM.
I still own the Ampzilla and it is better than the latest space heater from Krell.
The Ampzilla seems to have a tube like sound quality. My friend has a VTL MONSTER with 12(!) ouput tubes per channel and much to my surprise the VTL sounded very similar to the Ampzilla. The latter had better controlled bass and highs. The VTL had smoother voices. I am not familiar with Aleph 5. My friend had a Pass design 20 years ago that sounded slightly less than the Ampzilla. I don't remember the model#.
A Pi-filter will for sure make the amplifier more quiet. I did that on the Ampzilla with 15 mH chokes. Ripple voltage on the supply is <B>MUCH</B> lower.
The rising impedance is due to the autotransformer in the crossover. It will do no harm but I left it out in my KWAK-CROSSOVER. If interested I can send you the schematic.
Hi Duck-Twacy,
Klipsch loudspeakers are extremely unforgiving for bad electronic gear. I speak of experience as I own a pair of Klipschorns.
My greatest sin was selling a pair of Scala's to a custumer owning a Yamaha receiver. It sounded so painfull that I left his appartment in a hurry.......
I settled for a Gas Ampzilla after I found that a cheap Sony integrated amp sounded horrible. Then bought a Crown D-150, then SAE MkIV-DM.
I still own the Ampzilla and it is better than the latest space heater from Krell.
The Ampzilla seems to have a tube like sound quality. My friend has a VTL MONSTER with 12(!) ouput tubes per channel and much to my surprise the VTL sounded very similar to the Ampzilla. The latter had better controlled bass and highs. The VTL had smoother voices. I am not familiar with Aleph 5. My friend had a Pass design 20 years ago that sounded slightly less than the Ampzilla. I don't remember the model#.
A Pi-filter will for sure make the amplifier more quiet. I did that on the Ampzilla with 15 mH chokes. Ripple voltage on the supply is <B>MUCH</B> lower.
The rising impedance is due to the autotransformer in the crossover. It will do no harm but I left it out in my KWAK-CROSSOVER. If interested I can send you the schematic.
Thanx for all the replies.
Of course a 60 watt Aleph5 is a bit of an overkill for these speakers (Aleph3 would be sufficient), but I allready started the Aleph5 (actually I am, or "we are", in the stage of ordering parts).
Still dont know if I will buy the La Scala's. I like the dynamic sound, but I'm affraid I am too much of a beginner in electronics to get the amp quiet enough. They are also quite expensive (even second hand).
btw somewhere there was a thread about how to calculate the CLC (pi) filters. maybe somebody can point me to it (cant find it).
Of course a 60 watt Aleph5 is a bit of an overkill for these speakers (Aleph3 would be sufficient), but I allready started the Aleph5 (actually I am, or "we are", in the stage of ordering parts).
Still dont know if I will buy the La Scala's. I like the dynamic sound, but I'm affraid I am too much of a beginner in electronics to get the amp quiet enough. They are also quite expensive (even second hand).
btw somewhere there was a thread about how to calculate the CLC (pi) filters. maybe somebody can point me to it (cant find it).
Re: Klipsch
It is nice how they publish the updated crossover design for those to make themselves. Is this the same crossover that you are using with them?
http://www.alkeng.com/dload/xover.zip
from
http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html
--
Brian
cyclotronguy said:
It is nice how they publish the updated crossover design for those to make themselves. Is this the same crossover that you are using with them?
http://www.alkeng.com/dload/xover.zip
from
http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html
--
Brian
ALK Engineering
Thanks BrianGT
That is the link for ALK, which I didn't have close at hand at the time of the original post. If you clone ALK crossovers from the on line schematics, please do not use lesser parts.
La Scala's usually respond well to upgraded wiring. The original connections with time degrade and should be cleaned and soldered.
Cyclotronguy
Thanks BrianGT
That is the link for ALK, which I didn't have close at hand at the time of the original post. If you clone ALK crossovers from the on line schematics, please do not use lesser parts.
La Scala's usually respond well to upgraded wiring. The original connections with time degrade and should be cleaned and soldered.
Cyclotronguy
ALK Eng - Squawker horn upgrade
Re: Cyclotronguy's advice on the ALK La Scala crossovers
I am feeling very interested in giving the ALKs crossovers a go.
Could you please let me know the areas/extent of improvement over the stock LaScalas?
Which crossover versions did you try: Universal Upgrade or Extreme Slope ?
Also, do you have any experience with the Squawker horn upgrade also available on the ALK website ?
I have a love and hate relationship with these speakers, so any help will be trully appreciated...
Many thanks in advance,
b_online
Re: Cyclotronguy's advice on the ALK La Scala crossovers
I am feeling very interested in giving the ALKs crossovers a go.
Could you please let me know the areas/extent of improvement over the stock LaScalas?
Which crossover versions did you try: Universal Upgrade or Extreme Slope ?
Also, do you have any experience with the Squawker horn upgrade also available on the ALK website ?
I have a love and hate relationship with these speakers, so any help will be trully appreciated...
Many thanks in advance,
b_online
Scala
Forget the ALK. It makes matters worse. Beter results are obtained with Electrovoice 1823M or 1824 middriver and a beter tweeter EV T350. All collectors items now. Try my crossover with motorrun cap for the mid. The auto transformer puts a veil on the music! Mines has none. Damping of the metal midhorn helps marginally. The plastic variety seems to be not rigid enough. [end of rant]
Jocko hates Khorns. Ask him why!
Back to chatroom now. Yahooooooooo.
Forget the ALK. It makes matters worse. Beter results are obtained with Electrovoice 1823M or 1824 middriver and a beter tweeter EV T350. All collectors items now. Try my crossover with motorrun cap for the mid. The auto transformer puts a veil on the music! Mines has none. Damping of the metal midhorn helps marginally. The plastic variety seems to be not rigid enough. [end of rant]
Jocko hates Khorns. Ask him why!
Back to chatroom now. Yahooooooooo.
Further info on ALK xover
Could you please explain a bit further in which ways and to what extent did the ALK xover affect the sound of your LaScalas ?
Also, could you please let me know as well the rest of the system being used together with the LaScalas when you tried the ALK crossovers?
I am just trying to get a clearer picture, since there seems to be a love or hate reaction to these xovers...
Many thanks,
Could you please explain a bit further in which ways and to what extent did the ALK xover affect the sound of your LaScalas ?
Also, could you please let me know as well the rest of the system being used together with the LaScalas when you tried the ALK crossovers?
I am just trying to get a clearer picture, since there seems to be a love or hate reaction to these xovers...
Many thanks,
Re: Further info on ALK xover
Actually a friend with Khorns has the ALK crossovers. I have built them as a experiment. I did a lot of experimenting with my Khorns. In original state these are too forward and have a peak around 5500Hz. This is especially nasty as Fletcher Munson curve of our ear sensitivity has also a peak there. Newer Klipsch drivers have even more output at 5500 Hz.
Steep filters have a lot of ringing which is not desirable. So I have Bessel characteristic, no ringing.
I have Son of Ampzilla amp and my own preamp.
b_online said:
Actually a friend with Khorns has the ALK crossovers. I have built them as a experiment. I did a lot of experimenting with my Khorns. In original state these are too forward and have a peak around 5500Hz. This is especially nasty as Fletcher Munson curve of our ear sensitivity has also a peak there. Newer Klipsch drivers have even more output at 5500 Hz.
Steep filters have a lot of ringing which is not desirable. So I have Bessel characteristic, no ringing.
I have Son of Ampzilla amp and my own preamp.
Klipsch x-overs
Hi, I have owned Klipsch speakers for over thirty years. I have found that american amps sound much better on them then Japanese. Not sure why except that there is sooo much circutry in the Japanese designs where the Americans are as straight forward as possible. I tri-amped my Heresys using the old Pass citation 12 Mosfet design and they sounded Fantastic. I now have them bi-amped using my own design with a lot more power and a seperate horn (K-horn clone) for sub. My kids love this setup for music as well as gameing!!
An associate of mine just bought a pair of Cornwalls at a garage sale for $50!!! I am trying to talk him out of them for, say, double his money. Regards, Steve
Hi, I have owned Klipsch speakers for over thirty years. I have found that american amps sound much better on them then Japanese. Not sure why except that there is sooo much circutry in the Japanese designs where the Americans are as straight forward as possible. I tri-amped my Heresys using the old Pass citation 12 Mosfet design and they sounded Fantastic. I now have them bi-amped using my own design with a lot more power and a seperate horn (K-horn clone) for sub. My kids love this setup for music as well as gameing!!
An associate of mine just bought a pair of Cornwalls at a garage sale for $50!!! I am trying to talk him out of them for, say, double his money.
Regards, SteveThen you have my biggest sympathies
. There are so many far superior speakers out there of all types that its not even funny.My personal experinece with Klipsch has always been negative. I've used alot of LaScallas in Cinema applications and they utilize drivers of the cheapest variety even on their most expensive systems. Some of the systems even have a zener diode across the hf drivers to save the cheap drivers from self destructing.... that zener also drives power amps crazy! X-overs are poorly designed and cause alot of phase shift of their own. Some x-overs use motor start/run type capacitors which are certainly not nearly adaquate for high end audio applications.
Changing over to better drivers does help alot in many of the systems but overall right out of the box they are extremely poor performers that you just about have to re-design in order to get decent sound out of. But then there is still alot of phase shift thats generated by them too and thats very difficult to get rid of.
I always say if you like loud music buy Klipsch.... but if its the music you want to hear and the effort put into a given performance then you need a real high end speaker.
Just my 2 cents worth based on my own expereinces....
Mark
Mark A. Gulbrandsen said:
Then you have my biggest sympathies
My personal experinece with Klipsch has always been negative. I've used alot of LaScallas in Cinema applications and they utilize drivers of the cheapest variety even on their most expensive systems. Some of the systems even have a zener diode across the hf drivers to save the cheap drivers from self destructing.... that zener also drives power amps crazy! X-overs are poorly designed and cause alot of phase shift of their own. Some x-overs use motor start/run type capacitors which are certainly not nearly adaquate for high end audio applications.
Changing over to better drivers does help alot in many of the systems but overall right out of the box they are extremely poor performers that you just about have to re-design in order to get decent sound out of. But then there is still alot of phase shift thats generated by them too and thats very difficult to get rid of.
I always say if you like loud music buy Klipsch.... but if its the music you want to hear and the effort put into a given performance then you need a real high end speaker.
Just my 2 cents worth based on my own expereinces....
Mark
Great post Mark.
In a way I agree. It has taken much experimentation and time to tame the Klipschorn!
And it all started again with CD-playback.
The zeners only conduct at discoteque levels.
Middrivers and tweeters are so so. Bass is OK.
I could go on but I am busy, see below.
This graph (the bottom half) really says a lot:
I couldn’t find a =n actual measured impedance response of the stock XO, but of all the Klipsch ones i hav efound, all have a huge impedance peak from the XO, not a good thing if your amp has a highish output impedance (like most SETs and the ACA [especially when bridged] for instance)
dave
Apologies for bringin gthis back from the dead.
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