I checked the site of the Pass Labs distributor for the Netherlands for some price info about the XA-200.
http://www.moremusic.nl/prijslijsten/passlabs.htm
But when I looked in their pricelist not only a price is mentioned for the XA-200 but also for the XA-150. XA-150???? So far I have never heared of it. When I check the Pass Labs site only little information is available for the XA-200 but the XA-150 is not mentioned. Nelson, is the little brother of the XA-200 born?
BTW, the XA-200 costs in the Netherlands 42000 EURO and the XA-150 26900 EURO.
Unfortunately I can't afford one and therefore I have to build one myself (Sorry Nelson).
http://www.moremusic.nl/prijslijsten/passlabs.htm
But when I looked in their pricelist not only a price is mentioned for the XA-200 but also for the XA-150. XA-150???? So far I have never heared of it. When I check the Pass Labs site only little information is available for the XA-200 but the XA-150 is not mentioned. Nelson, is the little brother of the XA-200 born?
BTW, the XA-200 costs in the Netherlands 42000 EURO and the XA-150 26900 EURO.
Unfortunately I can't afford one and therefore I have to build one myself (Sorry Nelson).
With regard to the consumer prices of Pass amps I have to say that as a former (prospective Pass) distributor this is exactly the development that kills the high-end business in general and particularly in the Netherlands.
Music loving audiophiles who cannot build their own gear, cannot afford quality audio equipment this way.
Distributors and dealers will do anything to put other distributors or dealers out of business. It sadly is all about money and only money. Dedicated high-end loving dealers can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Manufacturers easily fall for distributors who tell them that they can sell twice as much amps then the manufacturer's current distributor. With Pass Labs this is not different as I have experienced myself. Sorry Nelson, but it's the truth.
However I still respect Nelson for his open and honest way of supporting this forum. As I understand he's into designing and not into sales.
Franklin
Music loving audiophiles who cannot build their own gear, cannot afford quality audio equipment this way.
Distributors and dealers will do anything to put other distributors or dealers out of business. It sadly is all about money and only money. Dedicated high-end loving dealers can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Manufacturers easily fall for distributors who tell them that they can sell twice as much amps then the manufacturer's current distributor. With Pass Labs this is not different as I have experienced myself. Sorry Nelson, but it's the truth.
However I still respect Nelson for his open and honest way of supporting this forum. As I understand he's into designing and not into sales.
Franklin
Our current distributor in the Netherlands is doing a very
good job. As I recall, one of the reasons Franklin did not
become a distributor is that he objected to the publication
of schematics and such.
I see things differently, but then I suppose I can afford to.
We have not seen any decline in our business, much less
loss of business that could attributed to the DIY community.
We obviously try to pick distribution for success, and as an
organization we are far more interested in the long term
relationship. We don't believe promises of volume in any
case.
good job. As I recall, one of the reasons Franklin did not
become a distributor is that he objected to the publication
of schematics and such.
I see things differently, but then I suppose I can afford to.
We have not seen any decline in our business, much less
loss of business that could attributed to the DIY community.
We obviously try to pick distribution for success, and as an
organization we are far more interested in the long term
relationship. We don't believe promises of volume in any
case.
Nelson, glad you responded.
At that time I made a remark about my concern to publish schematics of commercial designs.
If I'm informed well, this is still the case, otherwise everyone wouldn't be backengineering here. And it is not you personally I critisize, but
the system.
My remark concerning the status of high-end in the Netherlands is the observation of a patern which has been going on for some time now and which can only be judged and monitered objectively locally. Although Pass Labs is the company which proclaims an honest and open approach, which may be true to some extend, I think the way they kept me waiting for almost a year is far from professional and literally being dumped says more about your sales dept. than it says about me.
Franklin
At that time I made a remark about my concern to publish schematics of commercial designs.
If I'm informed well, this is still the case, otherwise everyone wouldn't be backengineering here. And it is not you personally I critisize, but
the system.
My remark concerning the status of high-end in the Netherlands is the observation of a patern which has been going on for some time now and which can only be judged and monitered objectively locally. Although Pass Labs is the company which proclaims an honest and open approach, which may be true to some extend, I think the way they kept me waiting for almost a year is far from professional and literally being dumped says more about your sales dept. than it says about me.
Franklin
To address the issue of what we publish and what we don't:
It is our policy to publish the service manual online when the
product ceases shipping.
In the case of the Volksamp products, an exception was made
to publish the service manuals on introduction.
Franklin, I'm sorry that you had a long wait, only to be
disappointed, but we both understand that this is often
the way it goes in business. In this case the sales department
is also the president of the company, and we are in accord.
It is our policy to publish the service manual online when the
product ceases shipping.
In the case of the Volksamp products, an exception was made
to publish the service manuals on introduction.
Franklin, I'm sorry that you had a long wait, only to be
disappointed, but we both understand that this is often
the way it goes in business. In this case the sales department
is also the president of the company, and we are in accord.
Franklin said:
This I think could easily apply to many situations and areas-
Business is about profits - No profits=no business.
Further, for a business to survive and prosper in a "niche market" they frequently will make decisions that are not understood by those that have less of a grasp of the niche.
Mr Pass has been very tactful and thoughtful in his reply, as is usually the case.
To Franklin
It is my opinion that it is in poor taste to choose this venue as the place to make such statements and then relate them to your disappointment about a business deal that fell through.
sincerely
Ken
Ken,
I have related my comments to the situation in the Dutch high-end business and the high-end business in general. I may say that I, more than you realize, do understand why business decisions are made.
With respect to my personal situation, wether relevant or not in this forum, I wanted to illustrate that this is the way business is done by many, be they manufacturers or dealers. People don't count anymore these days.
I also realise that very few share my point of view, but that's ok.
To Nelson
Sadly this is often, as you mention, the way it goes in business. That's way it's no longer my cup of thea.
Franklin
I have related my comments to the situation in the Dutch high-end business and the high-end business in general. I may say that I, more than you realize, do understand why business decisions are made.
With respect to my personal situation, wether relevant or not in this forum, I wanted to illustrate that this is the way business is done by many, be they manufacturers or dealers. People don't count anymore these days.
I also realise that very few share my point of view, but that's ok.
To Nelson
Sadly this is often, as you mention, the way it goes in business. That's way it's no longer my cup of thea.
Franklin
Originally posted by pinkmouse
" Just a thought, if I built 15 ways of class A for my home theatre system, I would never need to pay for central heating ever again!" 
I've kinda wondered about that situation myself -
I'm pretty much a tube sort of guy - but started following the Pass Labs forum - partly because I was thinking of tri-amping and wanted to avoid the heat put out by the tubes - Duhhhh - well - looks to me like ss put outs about the same amount of heat but does it through an aluiminum sink instead of a glass bottle -
Here in SC our summers can be brutal, I guess our cooling season is longer than our heating season - So there is no easy out - However, I'm having the forced air heating/cooling for the HT put on a seperate thermostat and zone -
I guess if I moved up north I could do like Pinkmouse is thinking and heat with SS
Ken
" Just a thought, if I built 15 ways of class A for my home theatre system, I would never need to pay for central heating ever again!
" I've kinda wondered about that situation myself -
I'm pretty much a tube sort of guy - but started following the Pass Labs forum - partly because I was thinking of tri-amping and wanted to avoid the heat put out by the tubes - Duhhhh - well - looks to me like ss put outs about the same amount of heat but does it through an aluiminum sink instead of a glass bottle -
Here in SC our summers can be brutal, I guess our cooling season is longer than our heating season - So there is no easy out - However, I'm having the forced air heating/cooling for the HT put on a seperate thermostat and zone -
I guess if I moved up north I could do like Pinkmouse is thinking and heat with SS
Ken
I have the same sort of heat problem, running 10 channels
of Class A to drive my quint amped system.
Marlin P Jones' web site is currently offering nice 12V
computer type fans for $3, and I bought 100.
I'm building a rack which will use these to remove heat
to the outside in the summer and the inside in winter.
This way I hope to at least reduce my cooling bill next summer.
of Class A to drive my quint amped system.
Marlin P Jones' web site is currently offering nice 12V
computer type fans for $3, and I bought 100.
I'm building a rack which will use these to remove heat
to the outside in the summer and the inside in winter.
This way I hope to at least reduce my cooling bill next summer.
Nelson,
why dont you buy an old rotten car's not so rotten heatsink ... oops ... water cooling unit and those nice lil' floudcoolers available now and build a remote water cooling circuit for your 10 channels? 
sorry, could not resist ..but that's exactly what i plan to do with my computer, not only because of the heat, also to get the noise out. With all security means, of course, including a flow sensor checking if the pump is working or stuck.
why dont you buy an old rotten car's not so rotten heatsink ... oops ... water cooling unit and those nice lil' floudcoolers available now and build a remote water cooling circuit for your 10 channels? sorry, could not resist ..but that's exactly what i plan to do with my computer, not only because of the heat, also to get the noise out. With all security means, of course, including a flow sensor checking if the pump is working or stuck.Franklin,
risking i am pouring oil into a
already dying down, i must say that i do not appreciate washing dirty laundry in public. 
No matter if justified. Methinks you got a set of lumps for that already and in a way more gentle way than you earn.
I just want to add that we live in a not-so-pleasant world and that it is the standard case for manufacturers, dsitrubutors, dealers and customers to pull each other over the table, to cheat and dicker down whereever possible.
Now there some manufacturers trying to break that vicious circle. By being honest.
As Pass Labs. Company policy is honesty, honesty and mutual long-term trust is program. (Nelson, please correct my wording if you feel that misexpressed)
We have a saying over here, a rhyme:
"Wenn jeder Treue läßt vermissen
bist Du als Treuer aufgeschmissen"
translates freely : If everybody cheats on honesty, your honesty is cheated too.
I fervently disagree. In a world of cheaters there are plenty of folks feeling cheated.
If now an honest company manages to obtain those as customers, honesty has become a unique selling point.
Just for the record, i am a tube person and designing my own amps, So i am unlikely to ever buy or build a Pass amp.
But i am likely to adopt Pass Labs policy, should i make it to the own business. I will follow Nelson's example. I let my business relations be based on mutual long-term trust and if a customer needs info concerning my product, he gets it. May the sales and marketing staff frown on me.
I tell you what the sales and marketing staff does frown at massively: to have bikinis to sell to an Eskimo/Inuit grandma.
I tell you what the sales and marketing staff is happy with: to have a competitive product to be proud of and easy to sell.
Obviously the Euro 42000 amp is such and sells, other wise Nelson would not have time to share it with us.
Franklin said:
risking i am pouring oil into a
already dying down, i must say that i do not appreciate washing dirty laundry in public. No matter if justified. Methinks you got a set of lumps for that already and in a way more gentle way than you earn. I just want to add that we live in a not-so-pleasant world and that it is the standard case for manufacturers, dsitrubutors, dealers and customers to pull each other over the table, to cheat and dicker down whereever possible.
Now there some manufacturers trying to break that vicious circle. By being honest.
As Pass Labs. Company policy is honesty, honesty and mutual long-term trust is program. (Nelson, please correct my wording if you feel that misexpressed)
We have a saying over here, a rhyme:
"Wenn jeder Treue läßt vermissen
bist Du als Treuer aufgeschmissen"
translates freely : If everybody cheats on honesty, your honesty is cheated too.
I fervently disagree. In a world of cheaters there are plenty of folks feeling cheated.
If now an honest company manages to obtain those as customers, honesty has become a unique selling point.
Just for the record, i am a tube person and designing my own amps, So i am unlikely to ever buy or build a Pass amp.
But i am likely to adopt Pass Labs policy, should i make it to the own business. I will follow Nelson's example. I let my business relations be based on mutual long-term trust and if a customer needs info concerning my product, he gets it. May the sales and marketing staff frown on me.
I tell you what the sales and marketing staff does frown at massively: to have bikinis to sell to an Eskimo/Inuit grandma.
I tell you what the sales and marketing staff is happy with: to have a competitive product to be proud of and easy to sell.
Obviously the Euro 42000 amp is such and sells, other wise Nelson would not have time to share it with us.
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