Help on Power supply layout.!

alexmark · 11th October 2002, 02:09 AM

Hi Aleph Fans,

Any suggestion on my power supply arrangement? I’m worry about the mutual inductance created by the 4 iron core inductors. Any ideal to minimize the induce EMF ?

thanks,

Alex

cowanrg · 11th October 2002, 02:57 AM

sorry to reply without answering your question, but i MUST know where you got those heatsinks, they are awesome!

Peter Daniel · 11th October 2002, 03:07 AM

With all those heat sinks transformer seems to be little small.

What amp are you building?

Peter Daniel · 11th October 2002, 03:10 AM

cowanrg,

they look like those: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...9762#post69762

roddyama · 11th October 2002, 03:45 AM

Peter,

With 12 output devices per channel, if it’s an Aleph, it is either an Aleph 4 or a stereo Aleph 2. Either way, I think you’re right, the transformers look too small.

Rodd Yamas***a

alexmark · 11th October 2002, 02:53 PM

Currently I was preparing to build an Aleph 2, but for the limited space I need to squeeze in 2 X 1000 VA toroidal, 8 X 46K cap, and 4 X inductors(stereo Aleph 2 in one big box 500 X 520 X 300mm). The only problem now is to minimize the mutual inductance and the induced EMF. Can anyone help, pls light me up...!

cowanrg,
Regarding the heatsink it was brought from http://www.suntronics.com.sg/ ,a product of SEMIKRON datasheet as follow http://www.semikron.com/databook99/13heatsi/p3.pdf ,each having a dimension of 135 X 125 X 300mm (D X W X H)I was using 4 pcs of it tight together with a T6061 grade Aluminium plate (12.7 X 500 X 300mm) to form a big heatsink around 25Kg per channel.

Peter Daniel,
yes, I was using 2 X 1000Va toroidal, but there is only 1 pcs in the pic. One question, can I tight 2 toroidal together, is there any concern ?

SuppersReady · 11th October 2002, 04:10 PM

Hi Alexmark,

I see you have mounted the FETs at the bottom of the heatsink. I recall seeing a discussion on another thread about how disipation is actually improved by mounting the devices above the mid-line of the heatsink. I can't remember the thread I saw it on but someone else may know of it. (That's old age for you, 40 years old this weekend, and the brain cells are dying at ever increasing rate - but I find the red wine makes it bearable.)

Behemoth comes to mind with those dimensions. Enjoy the end result.

Paul

Where's the corkscrew gone?

alexmark · 12th October 2002, 02:58 AM

Hi SuppersReady,

Actually the 12 mosfet were mounted at the center of the aluminium plate, attached to 4pcs 135 X 125 X 300mm heatsink and tight them together using 8 X M8 screw.
I was intentionally mount the Mosfet upside down to minimize the magnetic induction created by the 2 power toroidal and 4 inductors which I intend to mount them at the bottom of the chasiss.

About the screw head hole was using 14mm End Mill drill to 8mm depth, make it look like flat at the surface of the alu. plate.

roddyama · 12th October 2002, 04:51 AM

Hi Alexmark,

To address your original post, I don’t know the down side of stacking the toroidal transformers. I would have thought as you have, that the mutual inductance would be a problem.

Ideally, mutual inductance is minimized by, first distance, but I’m assuming this is not an option. If they must be mounted in proximity to each other, then they should be mounted at right angles. One can be placed flat against the front panel and the other would then be placed as it is in your photo. This would set them at right angles with mutual inductance minimized.

This said, I’ve seen plenty of projects on this site that ignore this property completely, stacking the transformers on the same center, and they don’t seen to be having any problems. At least none that have been talked about to my knowledge.

I think I would take the gamble and stack the transformers on center to save the space. Maybe one of the guys that have done this will chime in and let us know how it turned out, but suspect it’s not a problem.

Just my thoughts,
Rodd Yamas***a

Peter Daniel · 12th October 2002, 05:31 AM

All the info regarding stacking toroids is here:

Stacking toroids - Ok?

11th October 2002, 03:07 AM	#3
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	With all those heat sinks transformer seems to be little small. What amp are you building? __________________ www.audiosector.com “Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC

11th October 2002, 03:10 AM	#4
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	cowanrg, they look like those: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...9762#post69762 __________________ www.audiosector.com “Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC

12th October 2002, 05:31 AM	#10
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	All the info regarding stacking toroids is here: Stacking toroids - Ok? __________________ www.audiosector.com “Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC

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11th October 2002, 02:57 AM	#2
cowanrg diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lafayette, CO	sorry to reply without answering your question, but i MUST know where you got those heatsinks, they are awesome!

11th October 2002, 03:45 AM	#5
roddyama diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Michigan	Peter, With 12 output devices per channel, if it’s an Aleph, it is either an Aleph 4 or a stereo Aleph 2. Either way, I think you’re right, the transformers look too small. Rodd Yamas***a

11th October 2002, 02:53 PM	#6
alexmark diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malaysia	Currently I was preparing to build an Aleph 2, but for the limited space I need to squeeze in 2 X 1000 VA toroidal, 8 X 46K cap, and 4 X inductors(stereo Aleph 2 in one big box 500 X 520 X 300mm). The only problem now is to minimize the mutual inductance and the induced EMF. Can anyone help, pls light me up...! cowanrg, Regarding the heatsink it was brought from http://www.suntronics.com.sg/ ,a product of SEMIKRON datasheet as follow http://www.semikron.com/databook99/13heatsi/p3.pdf ,each having a dimension of 135 X 125 X 300mm (D X W X H)I was using 4 pcs of it tight together with a T6061 grade Aluminium plate (12.7 X 500 X 300mm) to form a big heatsink around 25Kg per channel. Peter Daniel, yes, I was using 2 X 1000Va toroidal, but there is only 1 pcs in the pic. One question, can I tight 2 toroidal together, is there any concern ?

11th October 2002, 04:10 PM	#7
SuppersReady diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UK	Hi Alexmark, I see you have mounted the FETs at the bottom of the heatsink. I recall seeing a discussion on another thread about how disipation is actually improved by mounting the devices above the mid-line of the heatsink. I can't remember the thread I saw it on but someone else may know of it. (That's old age for you, 40 years old this weekend, and the brain cells are dying at ever increasing rate - but I find the red wine makes it bearable.) Behemoth comes to mind with those dimensions. Enjoy the end result. Paul Where's the corkscrew gone?

12th October 2002, 04:51 AM	#9
roddyama diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Michigan	Hi Alexmark, To address your original post, I don’t know the down side of stacking the toroidal transformers. I would have thought as you have, that the mutual inductance would be a problem. Ideally, mutual inductance is minimized by, first distance, but I’m assuming this is not an option. If they must be mounted in proximity to each other, then they should be mounted at right angles. One can be placed flat against the front panel and the other would then be placed as it is in your photo. This would set them at right angles with mutual inductance minimized. This said, I’ve seen plenty of projects on this site that ignore this property completely, stacking the transformers on the same center, and they don’t seen to be having any problems. At least none that have been talked about to my knowledge. I think I would take the gamble and stack the transformers on center to save the space. Maybe one of the guys that have done this will chime in and let us know how it turned out, but suspect it’s not a problem. Just my thoughts, Rodd Yamas***a

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