Power supply inductors (what specs?) - Page 4

Nelson Pass · 10th October 2002, 10:17 PM

As I have mentioned before, I tested a number of
Ferrite and Iron core inductors for loss of inductance
due to DC-caused saturation.

Some of your bigger core types, like the Erse (from Zalytron)
took more than 6 amps DC with no degradation. Of course
they get kind of warm...

roddyama · 10th October 2002, 10:20 PM

Bertie,

Quote:

But at this point in a power supply we're talking about basicaly DC with some AC noise element. Are we really suggesting that there is so much AC in the form of noise that the core will saturate? Surely not?

The Fairchild link in my earlier post shows that DC current will cause core saturation, and the higher the current the lower the inductance. This is on top of the AC current that salas mentions above.

Quote:

Also to get an air core inductor of say, 3mH at 100 Hz with DC resistance below 0.5 ohm they end up like a coke can and I've never seen anything like that in any commercial product.

Look at the link I posted on the first page to the Parts Connexion. They will show an air core 3" indiameter with a DC resistance of .6ohms.

I wouldn't leave the links but sometime I have other things to do.

Rodd Yamas***a

Salas · 10th October 2002, 10:37 PM

Dear Nelson,

No problem with value changes. Any honestly sized core will provide the inductance. I

Salas · 10th October 2002, 10:53 PM

Dear Nelson,

No problem with value changes. Any honestly sized core will provide the inductance. I have compared air coils, ferrite coils, iron dust coils, toroid coils. Technically on DC they fare identical when properly sized. Alas they sound different.
In my current preamp I use 3 toroid 20H chokes in stages. 70 Ohm Rdc each...I could easily pick up the sound change of a Holco over a sandcast resistor used as a damper feeding the first cap after the tube rectifier!
The darn things are a pain in the behind to put together based on final sound performance grounds....
And they are barely taxed... imagine 3A or 6A in a common PSU...
They do sound horrible if not being the properly picked ones.
Did you compare the coils soundwise? They even got warm.... they should be screaming aural signatures.

Regards

Nikos

Nelson Pass · 11th October 2002, 04:15 AM

What!? You want it to SOUND GOOD too?

Coulomb · 11th October 2002, 04:36 AM

There is an expression that comes to mind when these discussions get far too esoteric. It goes like this "Sometimes a person can be so fixated on a single blade of grass in a clearing that they con not see the forest for all the trees." Interpretations will vary, but basically if we as "Audiophiles" spend soo much time deconstructing the sonics of a system, we forget to feel the music.

I say "feel" the music because I beleive music is far more than just a collection of notes. Really good music can transport you to a different time or place, it can set in motion a series of emotions that can overwhelm you.

I think we should all spend a liittle more time listening to that which brought us here in the first place.

Anyway, that's what I think, now pass me a Hobgolin and put that John Lennon LP on I love so much.

Anthony

Salas · 11th October 2002, 11:19 AM

Hi all,

No! we dont miss the forest for a tree! We DIYers have the big chance to construct the big picture first and then focus on the minute details of the foliage. Cause we have control and access to experiment over our devices. Its a love afair. Some details enhance it and makes it deeper. 'You cant beat love' John Lennon (in a strong hometown accent)

Nick

protos · 11th October 2002, 02:41 PM

Can somebody enlighten me on why it is necessary to use more psu filtering on the Aleph. Is it because of a sonic (musical) improvement or just being fanatic about noise reduction. In my normal PSUed Aleph 5 I can barely hear a hum when my ear is next to the speaker so what is it that I can hope to gain by adding chokes and more caps?

roddyama · 11th October 2002, 05:05 PM

Hi Protos,

It depends how efficient your speakers are. My in process Aleph 5 will drive a set of horns at 106db/Wm. At that speaker efficiency, the amp has to be super clean.

Rodd Yamas***a

Nelson Pass · 11th October 2002, 05:34 PM

A pi network on any power supply will lower the
ripple noise of just about any amplifier, including an Aleph.
It's just a question of how much better you want to
make something versus how much effort you want to put out.

11th October 2002, 11:19 AM	#37
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	Audiophilia nevrosa Hi all, No! we dont miss the forest for a tree! We DIYers have the big chance to construct the big picture first and then focus on the minute details of the foliage. Cause we have control and access to experiment over our devices. Its a love afair. Some details enhance it and makes it deeper. 'You cant beat love' John Lennon (in a strong hometown accent) Nick

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Power supply cap brands & Specs	Zero Cool	Everything Else	16	30th October 2010 06:22 AM
Inductive coupling between power supply inductors	pjpoes	Parts	0	21st May 2007 05:22 PM
Power supply inductors	Jason Hubbard	Parts	24	4th February 2004 10:45 PM
heater supply (xformer specs are 6.3V 2.5A) as supply for a power LED?	jarthel	Tubes / Valves	10	21st July 2003 01:30 PM
Power supply inductors in Aleph	raincheck	Pass Labs	6	5th May 2003 01:48 AM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

10th October 2002, 10:17 PM	#31
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	As I have mentioned before, I tested a number of Ferrite and Iron core inductors for loss of inductance due to DC-caused saturation. Some of your bigger core types, like the Erse (from Zalytron) took more than 6 amps DC with no degradation. Of course they get kind of warm...

10th October 2002, 10:37 PM	#33
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	Dear Nelson, No problem with value changes. Any honestly sized core will provide the inductance. I

11th October 2002, 04:15 AM	#35
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	What!? You want it to SOUND GOOD too?

11th October 2002, 04:36 AM	#36
Coulomb diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ancaster, Ontario	There is an expression that comes to mind when these discussions get far too esoteric. It goes like this "Sometimes a person can be so fixated on a single blade of grass in a clearing that they con not see the forest for all the trees." Interpretations will vary, but basically if we as "Audiophiles" spend soo much time deconstructing the sonics of a system, we forget to feel the music. I say "feel" the music because I beleive music is far more than just a collection of notes. Really good music can transport you to a different time or place, it can set in motion a series of emotions that can overwhelm you. I think we should all spend a liittle more time listening to that which brought us here in the first place. Anyway, that's what I think, now pass me a Hobgolin and put that John Lennon LP on I love so much. Anthony

11th October 2002, 02:41 PM	#38
protos diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Athens+Addis Ababa	Can somebody enlighten me on why it is necessary to use more psu filtering on the Aleph. Is it because of a sonic (musical) improvement or just being fanatic about noise reduction. In my normal PSUed Aleph 5 I can barely hear a hum when my ear is next to the speaker so what is it that I can hope to gain by adding chokes and more caps?

11th October 2002, 05:05 PM	#39
roddyama diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Michigan	Hi Protos, It depends how efficient your speakers are. My in process Aleph 5 will drive a set of horns at 106db/Wm. At that speaker efficiency, the amp has to be super clean. Rodd Yamas***a

11th October 2002, 05:34 PM	#40
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	A pi network on any power supply will lower the ripple noise of just about any amplifier, including an Aleph. It's just a question of how much better you want to make something versus how much effort you want to put out.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)