ccs question on mini A

jeapel · 27th August 2005, 11:51 AM

hi

The upper transistor with mpsa18 is the aleph current source
but on the lower side there is another mpsa18 to control
current why not just a transistor like zen v4 i
don t understand this new ccs.

aleph newbie :-)

Brian Donaldson · 27th August 2005, 01:42 PM

The NPN on the neg half of the Aleph variants is a current limiter on the gain side, and it can be omitted if you like riding a motorcycle 300MPH in rain and snow.

In theory, if the source resistor hits a preset (by the voltage divider on the base) voltage drop (current draw throught fet), it shuts down the voltage to the gate, reducing the current throught the source resistor

jeapel · 27th August 2005, 04:45 PM

hi

ok the lower side mpsa18 is normally off line

check me if my understanding is good ??

1-for a zen v4 with just a +v supply the aleph upper
side current source limit the max. current in both
upper and lower side transistors

2-for a aleph:
the upper side:
idle current=.7/.47=1.5 amp plus maybe 30% aleph
modulation for a max.=2 amp

the lower side:
there is no current limit from the -15v and the lower
mpsa18 is for that but ??:

for .7v on mpsa18 base you need 2.25v on .47ohm
because (2.25*100)/(221+100)=.7v
I limit =2.25/.47=4.78 amp it s very high

for a 8ohm speaker maybe 6ohm there is a natural
limit = -15/6=2.5 amp it s very below 4.78amp

thanks

Brian Donaldson · 27th August 2005, 05:18 PM

I'm not sure about the Zen4, but you are correct for the Aleph. The current limit is set well above normal opperation. It's to make protect the amp in the case of shorted output. This is the production Aleph's only mode of protection.

jeapel · 27th August 2005, 06:17 PM

thanks for help :-)

i see a photo on the left below your name

is it a aleph nimi 3 or 30 and how do you find the sound

Brian Donaldson · 27th August 2005, 06:57 PM

It's something between Aleph 2 and Aleph 1.2
+- 60 volt rails 16 mosfets/ monoblock.
I'm still playing with the bias. but I've been running around 5amps.

Sounds to die for, and 100% efficient room heater. (too bad it's 95 deg outside.)

MEGA-amp · 28th August 2005, 12:40 AM

hey brian, sorry to impose here, but what are your secondaries. My secondaries for my A2 are at 38V (1500VA), just want to be safe, as i will have 12 outputs per/ch, orig bias (AT FIRST

)

Brian Donaldson · 28th August 2005, 02:00 AM

60 V secondarys, I think it's 1500 va, CRC 60,000 uf, Huge 2.5ohm 100w 55,000 uf per rail. I was thinking of regulating, but after buying tranny, decided it would be better to just burn the extra volts in a ceramic resistor then waste heatsink capacity with a reg

I've pushed them really hard, but my mind clipps before they do.

I think 38 comes out almost dead on the 45V mark, but don't sweat it. The circuit works fine anywhere from 20V to 75V.

jeapel · 28th August 2005, 12:51 PM

hi Brian

your big amp seem very interesting have you
a web site for details

my actual setup
www.loginnovation.com/jeapel

more questions ?

1-for the 3 220uF you use top cap like blackgate
or just junk cap ?

2-on the mini A schematic the output mosfet are irf644 is it
possible to use irfp140 or 240 more available without
change the sound ?

Brian Donaldson · 28th August 2005, 03:57 PM

I did very little documentation. I did a few posts as things progressed, but many thing changed over the last few years

At last, My Aleph 2+

I used Nichicons, not boutique, but not quite junk. I plan to bypass the one in the neg feedback, but the other 2 I don't really consider critcal.

IRFP 140,240, 244 have all been used successfully. Using 4 sets of 8 matched, and a pain in the **** to install, I didn't listen to any others than the 244's I used.

A friend and I listened for a few hours, tweaking bias, current gain, and rail voltage (with a variac), and the biggest improvement was upping the rails. It seemed to open the sound and deepen the soundstage. We couldn't really tell a differece in the sound of the bias or gain, but most people seem to prefer the sound of higher bias.

To summarize, if I did it all over, I would run the rails higher, set the bias as high as the sinks can handle without running too hot, and adjust the gain so it clipps symetric. I would advise against running hotter than 150 deg. The stress of thermal cycling makes the silicon die delaminate from the copper case, then it melts down. We weren't watching, and ran mine up to 175 deg. About 40 times on and off after, the source resistors lit up like lightbulbs.

27th August 2005, 11:51 AM	#1
jeapel diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: quebec	ccs question on mini A hi The upper transistor with mpsa18 is the aleph current source but on the lower side there is another mpsa18 to control current why not just a transistor like zen v4 i don t understand this new ccs. aleph newbie :-)

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27th August 2005, 01:42 PM	#2
Brian Donaldson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas, Love it or leave it	The NPN on the neg half of the Aleph variants is a current limiter on the gain side, and it can be omitted if you like riding a motorcycle 300MPH in rain and snow. In theory, if the source resistor hits a preset (by the voltage divider on the base) voltage drop (current draw throught fet), it shuts down the voltage to the gate, reducing the current throught the source resistor

27th August 2005, 04:45 PM	#3
jeapel diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: quebec	hi ok the lower side mpsa18 is normally off line check me if my understanding is good ?? 1-for a zen v4 with just a +v supply the aleph upper side current source limit the max. current in both upper and lower side transistors 2-for a aleph: the upper side: idle current=.7/.47=1.5 amp plus maybe 30% aleph modulation for a max.=2 amp the lower side: there is no current limit from the -15v and the lower mpsa18 is for that but ??: for .7v on mpsa18 base you need 2.25v on .47ohm because (2.25*100)/(221+100)=.7v I limit =2.25/.47=4.78 amp it s very high for a 8ohm speaker maybe 6ohm there is a natural limit = -15/6=2.5 amp it s very below 4.78amp thanks

27th August 2005, 05:18 PM	#4
Brian Donaldson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas, Love it or leave it	I'm not sure about the Zen4, but you are correct for the Aleph. The current limit is set well above normal opperation. It's to make protect the amp in the case of shorted output. This is the production Aleph's only mode of protection.

27th August 2005, 06:17 PM	#5
jeapel diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: quebec	thanks for help :-) i see a photo on the left below your name is it a aleph nimi 3 or 30 and how do you find the sound

27th August 2005, 06:57 PM	#6
Brian Donaldson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas, Love it or leave it	It's something between Aleph 2 and Aleph 1.2 +- 60 volt rails 16 mosfets/ monoblock. I'm still playing with the bias. but I've been running around 5amps. Sounds to die for, and 100% efficient room heater. (too bad it's 95 deg outside.)

28th August 2005, 12:40 AM	#7
MEGA-amp diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Newington, CT	hey brian, sorry to impose here, but what are your secondaries. My secondaries for my A2 are at 38V (1500VA), just want to be safe, as i will have 12 outputs per/ch, orig bias (AT FIRST )

28th August 2005, 02:00 AM	#8
Brian Donaldson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas, Love it or leave it	60 V secondarys, I think it's 1500 va, CRC 60,000 uf, Huge 2.5ohm 100w 55,000 uf per rail. I was thinking of regulating, but after buying tranny, decided it would be better to just burn the extra volts in a ceramic resistor then waste heatsink capacity with a reg I've pushed them really hard, but my mind clipps before they do. I think 38 comes out almost dead on the 45V mark, but don't sweat it. The circuit works fine anywhere from 20V to 75V.

28th August 2005, 12:51 PM	#9
jeapel diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: quebec	hi Brian your big amp seem very interesting have you a web site for details my actual setup www.loginnovation.com/jeapel more questions ? 1-for the 3 220uF you use top cap like blackgate or just junk cap ? 2-on the mini A schematic the output mosfet are irf644 is it possible to use irfp140 or 240 more available without change the sound ?

28th August 2005, 03:57 PM	#10
Brian Donaldson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas, Love it or leave it	I did very little documentation. I did a few posts as things progressed, but many thing changed over the last few years At last, My Aleph 2+ I used Nichicons, not boutique, but not quite junk. I plan to bypass the one in the neg feedback, but the other 2 I don't really consider critcal. IRFP 140,240, 244 have all been used successfully. Using 4 sets of 8 matched, and a pain in the **** to install, I didn't listen to any others than the 244's I used. A friend and I listened for a few hours, tweaking bias, current gain, and rail voltage (with a variac), and the biggest improvement was upping the rails. It seemed to open the sound and deepen the soundstage. We couldn't really tell a differece in the sound of the bias or gain, but most people seem to prefer the sound of higher bias. To summarize, if I did it all over, I would run the rails higher, set the bias as high as the sinks can handle without running too hot, and adjust the gain so it clipps symetric. I would advise against running hotter than 150 deg. The stress of thermal cycling makes the silicon die delaminate from the copper case, then it melts down. We weren't watching, and ran mine up to 175 deg. About 40 times on and off after, the source resistors lit up like lightbulbs.