ok. well, yeah, this guy has sonus fabre all the way around, and he's selling some of his other gear (all around $3K each), so, money isnt the probelm, we just want the best we can DIY...
thanks peter for giving a straight answer
plus, its a pretty good sized room... i sell gear for a living, and i would suggest higher than 60 watts if i were selling him something.
the 2's it is. i will keep everyone posted. he is a photographer so we will have some good documentation of the project. (which should be pretty massive on scale, because im building a pair of monos too, so a total of 8 aleph 2 channels
thanks peter for giving a straight answer
plus, its a pretty good sized room... i sell gear for a living, and i would suggest higher than 60 watts if i were selling him something.
the 2's it is. i will keep everyone posted. he is a photographer so we will have some good documentation of the project. (which should be pretty massive on scale, because im building a pair of monos too, so a total of 8 aleph 2 channels
hehe, thanks peter
most people only do DIY just to get something cheap. im doing it to get the best possible i can afford. most people dont understand the system being upgraded (primare processor and 5 channel amp with sonus fabre speakers), is already like a $15K system... if i just wanted standard class a/b i would keep the stuff and not worry about it.
most people only do DIY just to get something cheap. im doing it to get the best possible i can afford. most people dont understand the system being upgraded (primare processor and 5 channel amp with sonus fabre speakers), is already like a $15K system... if i just wanted standard class a/b i would keep the stuff and not worry about it.
Peter Daniel said:I've read about some serious installations where Grand Slamms were used for rear channels speakers. Don't let anybody take away your vision.
hifizen is right and Peter Daniel is right also
How so?
Well it's really a question of degree and money and to some extent actual usage of the room.
For a great system and sound and video that maximizes resources (money) hifizen is on track here. I've got 5 identical speakers (only differing in that the rear don't have the outboard crossovers that the front three have) - more than once I have thought that I might have been better off to allocate the money differently in doing the rear speakers smaller and upgrading my LCD projector sooner - Due to the lower information carried in the rear channels - unless it's something like Saving Private Ryan many movies, even new ones, don't really use the rear channels that much.
However, for an all out cost is no object, doesn't have to be rational or reasonable and doesn't really matter that much about the financial aspect then -- Hey! Go for it. If we were rational, we would be doing something else for a hobby.
Also, Peter Daniel is correct in that SET is the way to go. Nicest thing I ever did was put my VAC 30/30 (push pull actually) into the signal path for the R and L channel - interestingly enough - since the front three speakers are identical - different amp on the center channel is not noticeable during a movie. Imaging in stereo can be excellent, however, in some infrequent instances, a center channel _may_ better translate a vehicle or whatever crossing from left to right, or other effect.
I've been looking at this issue from another slant in another thread relating to Orion speakers which I would integrate with the other channels - problem there being that you tri-amp the Orions.
For what it's worth, there's no easy answer here because most of us have limits on space, heat, power bill, and finances to put into a HT.
One other observation is that I will offer is that in the previous parts of this thread, my understanding is that the speakers to be used are different - L+R,Center, RR LR are three different types?
YOu might wish to pursue the train of thought to make the L&R&Center channels Aleph 2 or 5 and go AB on the rears - within the L&R have the highest possible quality in the chain for 2 channel.
I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated "media room" 14x27.
I find that people like to visit in the media room over drinks, whatnot, after the movie - listening to some nice 2 channel stuff - you can't really visit during a movie and you can socialize some with the lights soft and quality music in the background.
If you have people over watching the Super Bowl, or something of that nature on the big screen you have females complaining they can't talk if you route the sound to the rears and they'll leave the guys in the HT watching the big screen
If you're into having people (couples)over and enjoying an evening, trust me, they'll never even notice the difference in the rears if you go AB.
Depends on your priorities and budget.
Personally, I would go for absolute best sound on the planet in Left and Right, nice center channel, High definition widescreen projector, and AB on the rears.
hope this helps point you in the right direction.
Ken L
How so?
Well it's really a question of degree and money and to some extent actual usage of the room.
For a great system and sound and video that maximizes resources (money) hifizen is on track here. I've got 5 identical speakers (only differing in that the rear don't have the outboard crossovers that the front three have) - more than once I have thought that I might have been better off to allocate the money differently in doing the rear speakers smaller and upgrading my LCD projector sooner - Due to the lower information carried in the rear channels - unless it's something like Saving Private Ryan many movies, even new ones, don't really use the rear channels that much.
However, for an all out cost is no object, doesn't have to be rational or reasonable and doesn't really matter that much about the financial aspect then -- Hey! Go for it. If we were rational, we would be doing something else for a hobby.
Also, Peter Daniel is correct in that SET is the way to go. Nicest thing I ever did was put my VAC 30/30 (push pull actually) into the signal path for the R and L channel - interestingly enough - since the front three speakers are identical - different amp on the center channel is not noticeable during a movie. Imaging in stereo can be excellent, however, in some infrequent instances, a center channel _may_ better translate a vehicle or whatever crossing from left to right, or other effect.
I've been looking at this issue from another slant in another thread relating to Orion speakers which I would integrate with the other channels - problem there being that you tri-amp the Orions.
For what it's worth, there's no easy answer here because most of us have limits on space, heat, power bill, and finances to put into a HT.
One other observation is that I will offer is that in the previous parts of this thread, my understanding is that the speakers to be used are different - L+R,Center, RR LR are three different types?
YOu might wish to pursue the train of thought to make the L&R&Center channels Aleph 2 or 5 and go AB on the rears - within the L&R have the highest possible quality in the chain for 2 channel.
I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated "media room" 14x27.
I find that people like to visit in the media room over drinks, whatnot, after the movie - listening to some nice 2 channel stuff - you can't really visit during a movie and you can socialize some with the lights soft and quality music in the background.
If you have people over watching the Super Bowl, or something of that nature on the big screen you have females complaining they can't talk if you route the sound to the rears and they'll leave the guys in the HT watching the big screen
If you're into having people (couples)over and enjoying an evening, trust me, they'll never even notice the difference in the rears if you go AB.
Depends on your priorities and budget.
Personally, I would go for absolute best sound on the planet in Left and Right, nice center channel, High definition widescreen projector, and AB on the rears.
hope this helps point you in the right direction.
Ken L
thanks for the input Ken L.
but keep in mind, if im building 2 aleph's for L and R, and then building the rest aleph 5's, the cost really isnt that much MORE just to go with all 2's... so cost really isnt a factor. ive made up my mind, im jsut gonna go for it. we'll see how it turns out.
and as far as the screen, its a 60" mitsubishi diamond. almost brand new. it looks great
but keep in mind, if im building 2 aleph's for L and R, and then building the rest aleph 5's, the cost really isnt that much MORE just to go with all 2's... so cost really isnt a factor. ive made up my mind, im jsut gonna go for it. we'll see how it turns out.
and as far as the screen, its a 60" mitsubishi diamond. almost brand new. it looks great
oh, been away from this thread for a while, lots of new posts!
cowanrg:
Looks to me like you've made the right decision - I wasn't entirely sure what your objectives and budget were. I wish I had the money to spend on an all-Aleph HT!
If you're up to the challenge of a little design excercise, you may want to consider a high-powered Aleph-X approach... By all reports so far, the -X is even better than the standard Alephs, and perfectly suited to balanced inputs which you would naturally have from a high-end preamp. Sorry if I'm complicating your decision here...
Do be certain to carefully evaluate your heat situation... I would calculate the peak power dissipation these Alephs are going to make, and then stick an electric heater(s) in the room with approximately the same power output, maybe add a margin for error. Leave in on for several hours during a hot day, and see if it remains comfortable in there! If not, it could actually be a really nifty project to build a water cooling system with the radiator located outside... You'd definitely have a real showpiece if you do it up nice!
Keep us informed of your progress!
Cheers,
cowanrg:
Looks to me like you've made the right decision - I wasn't entirely sure what your objectives and budget were. I wish I had the money to spend on an all-Aleph HT!
If you're up to the challenge of a little design excercise, you may want to consider a high-powered Aleph-X approach... By all reports so far, the -X is even better than the standard Alephs, and perfectly suited to balanced inputs which you would naturally have from a high-end preamp. Sorry if I'm complicating your decision here...
Do be certain to carefully evaluate your heat situation... I would calculate the peak power dissipation these Alephs are going to make, and then stick an electric heater(s) in the room with approximately the same power output, maybe add a margin for error. Leave in on for several hours during a hot day, and see if it remains comfortable in there! If not, it could actually be a really nifty project to build a water cooling system with the radiator located outside... You'd definitely have a real showpiece if you do it up nice!
Keep us informed of your progress!
Cheers,
Also, I think if cost is no object, you've got the right idea to use the same amp and speakers for each channel, maybe with the exception of the centre channel...
Or, at least very similar speakers. I considered building Lynn Olson's Ariels for front LR, and the ME2 for rear and CC... still too rich for my blood right now though
Or, at least very similar speakers. I considered building Lynn Olson's Ariels for front LR, and the ME2 for rear and CC... still too rich for my blood right now though
cowanrg
Looks like you've got it well thought out. I really was thinking of the current drain being less on the fives ( if I remember correctly )
The five aleph 2's alone will need a circuit of their own. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it myself. In fact, I'm planning to bring two dedicated circuits in and run both circuits through several 12 amp powervar isolation transformers I picked up on E-bay.
let us know how it all turns out. Sounds like a killer setup.
hifiZen
Hi chad -
Having looked at the Ariel's and ME2's long and hard for a long time and for similar reasons, let me suggest that you might wish to consider other speakers for use with solid state. Talking with George Short at North Creek when I was thinking along a similar line, George commented that the Ariels are designed and voiced for SET tube operation and remember Lynn's comments that the Ariel's don't sound good with Careys ( a tube company), and that they are unlikely to sound good with SS.
Since my current tube amp is push pull and the HT is Solid State I crossed them off my list for now. And it's probably not going to be very much longer before those drivers are superceded by later versions of the drivers. I still like the concept though.
My problem is that I'm torn between tubes and Linkwitz designs and I'm gonna be far more thoughtful about how I spend my bucks in the future -
Which it looks like you're wisely doing.
Later
Ken L
As always, I wish to state my appreciation for Nelson Pass encouraging and contributing to this forum
Looks like you've got it well thought out. I really was thinking of the current drain being less on the fives ( if I remember correctly )
The five aleph 2's alone will need a circuit of their own. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it myself. In fact, I'm planning to bring two dedicated circuits in and run both circuits through several 12 amp powervar isolation transformers I picked up on E-bay.
let us know how it all turns out. Sounds like a killer setup.
hifiZen
Hi chad -
Having looked at the Ariel's and ME2's long and hard for a long time and for similar reasons, let me suggest that you might wish to consider other speakers for use with solid state. Talking with George Short at North Creek when I was thinking along a similar line, George commented that the Ariels are designed and voiced for SET tube operation and remember Lynn's comments that the Ariel's don't sound good with Careys ( a tube company), and that they are unlikely to sound good with SS.
Since my current tube amp is push pull and the HT is Solid State I crossed them off my list for now. And it's probably not going to be very much longer before those drivers are superceded by later versions of the drivers. I still like the concept though.
My problem is that I'm torn between tubes and Linkwitz designs and I'm gonna be far more thoughtful about how I spend my bucks in the future -
Which it looks like you're wisely doing.
Later
Ken L
As always, I wish to state my appreciation for Nelson Pass encouraging and contributing to this forum
well, its underway.
the boards have arrived. we went with Kristijan's boards, and to no surprise, they are awesome. we have all the transistors needed too. most parts have been purchased, including black gate caps all around.
so to update on the project... i am building 2 aleph2's (monoblocks), and my friend is building 6 2-channel aleph2's for a theatre. so, in total we are doing 8 all in one go. it will be quite the project, but we are almost ready to start putting them together.
in about a week all the parts should arrive, and we are left only to get the transformers.
the boards have arrived. we went with Kristijan's boards, and to no surprise, they are awesome. we have all the transistors needed too. most parts have been purchased, including black gate caps all around.
so to update on the project... i am building 2 aleph2's (monoblocks), and my friend is building 6 2-channel aleph2's for a theatre. so, in total we are doing 8 all in one go. it will be quite the project, but we are almost ready to start putting them together.
in about a week all the parts should arrive, and we are left only to get the transformers.
Dear cowarng
Does IQ stand for intelligence quality...?
It seems My IQ is very low.
I am very interested in your theater. I however can not figure it
out. Would you kindly make an easy map showing the theater
layout and post it? If the map also includes the amp and speaker
arrangement, it would be very nice. Thank you.
Please an easy map, not complicated please.
Does IQ stand for intelligence quality...?
It seems My IQ is very low.
I am very interested in your theater. I however can not figure it
out. Would you kindly make an easy map showing the theater
layout and post it? If the map also includes the amp and speaker
arrangement, it would be very nice. Thank you.
Please an easy map, not complicated please.
Bad A%$ HT
My personal experience tells me that in a multichannel set up, the priority distribution in a 5.1 for example would be
Center 40% + subwoofer
LF 15% + subwoofer
RF 15% + subwoofer
LR 15% + subwoofer
RR 15% + subwoofer
Set the decoder to Subwoofer as NO.
Center channel speaker should deserve the best of the rest, given a chance I would go with an high power SE tube amp for it too, since it is the heart and soul in multichannel setup.
Well, this is just my way.
Good luck with your project.
My personal experience tells me that in a multichannel set up, the priority distribution in a 5.1 for example would be
Center 40% + subwoofer
LF 15% + subwoofer
RF 15% + subwoofer
LR 15% + subwoofer
RR 15% + subwoofer
Set the decoder to Subwoofer as NO.
Center channel speaker should deserve the best of the rest, given a chance I would go with an high power SE tube amp for it too, since it is the heart and soul in multichannel setup.
Well, this is just my way.
Good luck with your project.
simple solution for watercooling:
buy a big heatsink of 400 mm width, 1m height.
Simply spray water on it, 10 cm from the top , put a recipient with aquarium pump underneath it to collect the warm water (kind of waterfall effect, could be optically attractif).
I know water and electricity together is a bit dangerous, but you can put the whole behind a kind of plexi cover.
..... put parfume in the water.....use chateau margaux instead of water.... try with bud if out of money.
buy a big heatsink of 400 mm width, 1m height.
Simply spray water on it, 10 cm from the top , put a recipient with aquarium pump underneath it to collect the warm water (kind of waterfall effect, could be optically attractif).
I know water and electricity together is a bit dangerous, but you can put the whole behind a kind of plexi cover.
..... put parfume in the water.....use chateau margaux instead of water.... try with bud if out of money.
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