increrible aleph5 tiuning!!

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hello guys outhere. I have built till now about 12pieces aleph 3/5/60/zen v4. some sounds beter some less better. I noticed that mainly sound of the depends on PS Filter caps. one day I did experiment (as have some spare parts laying without job :D )I builld folowing power suply for aleph 5- total capacistance 286 000uf cossisting on mixed caps. panasonic 47 000, philips 22 000, 6800, elna 4700. the sound was almost the same as with usual 170 000uf- I cant herd diference.. exept that maybe 800VA trafo get more buzzz and some flatiness and in sound mean..but then I decided to bypass al( maybe silly idea, but I have a bunch audiophilic quality caps for speakers froject ordered group buy to me and few friends from shuro.de) so I bypass every cap with audyn kpsn zinc folie, solen, audyn mkp,- all what I found. the bigest caps I bypased witth 2 film caps. bigger and litler, smal caps bypases with 33uf big(almost biger as a electrolytic 4700uf :) ) total I get arround 150uf film capasistance.
ALSO i PUT IN PCB 8 pieces ELNA SILMIC ARC II 50V 470UF instead 220uf.

turn on system( proac response 2,5 clone, aleph 5/heavily modified akai cd 69, dual cs745 turnable, kimber pbj, acr-fostex speakers cables)

left for 10-20 minutes, then comeback and try to listen.
I was shocked :eek: the sound become ABSOLUTELY DIFERENT.
there no mean terble become ... or bass become.. soundstage become.. everything changed totaly. thae bas was so increribly reoliution I was amazed, midrange become 0% distortion, and the hights become much more sharp and at the same time liquid soft(very hard to describe) and sounstage changed to deep but at such a resoliution that sound so fucus that sometimes looks it cames from one litle point. I was amazed, tie after time changed cd and didnt recognized my cd.. superb resoliution.acoustic fragments sound like in my room.. I hear a lot of expensive combo but his time this sound beats everything I have heard.

at 4 am I go to sleep hoping that there was my ears misunderstanding.. at morning wake up and try again.. the same thing..

I called to friend and he borow this amp to audition.( audionote cd3 cdp, triangle altus 202, audioquest cv6, mit cables,pretty expensive cables, two aleph(made by me) on biamping) afetr 20 minutes he called to me and with strange shaking voice asked what is that???????!!! he never heard anything like this.. he sayid that system so improved that he can not recognize.. after 2 days of listening he again call me and said that amp is superior. Now I have a problem to bring it to me..for listen to it again :)

Anybody with expierence can say what is that???

P.S. if this tiunig so good I am planning take patient and will start new line of alephwith Mr. Nelson. . I would call this line “RollAudio NelsonA5 version 3.58MK II”

If serious I would like to know what I have done good(wrong).
 
The differences i noticed with bypassing is that the biggest difference is up to about 30 uF film caps, using different cap types.
The minimum i use for powersupply bypassing are 10 uF film caps, with exception of styroflex caps.

In 2004 shiploads of film caps were dumped on the internet for some reason, i bought 100s of Siemens and Roederstein MKP, MKC, MKT's and styroflex caps.
Just this week i placed a bid on a number of 100 uF Audyn MKP Q5 loudspeaker caps.

Bypassing this heavilly has become standard in the tube section, no doubt any solid state amplifier benefits too, especially the class A models.

Even with class A amplifiers that have large electrolyte cans in the powersupply i like to place a few smaller ones in parallel.
Usually a 4700uF and a 1000 uF, after that at least 10 uF MKT, 10 uF MKC, 10 uF MKP.
Since the Styroflex caps have become so cheap i add a few styroflex caps.
( i remember paying big money for the Orange square Siemens styroflex caps i used for preamp circuitry)

J
 
grataku said:
The real question is how much drugs/alcohol could you ingest in those 10-20 min? :cool:


yeap I am medicine doctor not a electronical genius or alkoholic . but I sang in chorus, have lot of friends in live music . my girlfriend playing in orhectra with walthorn and I hear live music a lot,so my ears not totaly dead. smash: the diference was. and was huge. I tryed disconect and hook up another aleph 5 in that evening( I hope Mr. Nelson do not against buch of a5 build for personal use :) ) and sound become less focused,liquid treble disapeared imedietly. and thees changes are not audiophilic bla bla bla "this kimber cable ir more.... but this van den hul has less wides soundstage.. etc etc" diference was obvious and huge. :smash: I tryed the same tiuning with 250v 3.3uf philips caps but the diference is not so obvious-something changed,but dont know what. I dont compare to that first one but when I will try I let you know.in physical laws low capasity polypropylen caps should improove only high frewuency area at least. very intereting I think I will try to spent exra bucks for this tiuning. anyone who goies sceptical to this I would recomend to do this mods on this amp with exactlky the same caps and then reply ;)
:cool::
 
Nelson Pass said:
I think that throwing tons of every kind of cap on the
supply is a very valid approach. Congratulations on
your discovery.

:cool:

didnt more capasitoirs in paralel make more capasistance but also make more resistance which is not good? I tryed to hold law to put in suply only similar 15 000- 22 000 caps but sometimes tyed to mix diferent caps and are very pleasant with results..
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
Your arrangement of the power supply filter capacitors gives me impression.

These days, I try to find an optimum size of power supply filter capacitors. I have followed saying: the bigger, the better. But, when I shift up the size, I see that there is a point from which I start to realize no more distinctive change in result.

I still doubt myself whether the by-pass film capacitors actually helps or not. These days, I tried it again, listening to Odetta: You Got No How. Her voice sounds like a man upon very clear rhythm and pitch of energetic low bass sound. With or without the by-pass caps, I get no distinctive difference in high frequency notes. They keep her voice the same. One thing I could know is that the by-pass caps hardly work negative way. Depending on the amps, it might work positive way, IMHO.
 
Aleph 5 PSU

Hi elviukai

Interesting report you have on your capacitor experiments. The amplifier you are refering to - does it have a CLC filter or is it just one large block of capacitors? I have a large (100 or so) stock of Rifa polystyren 3,3uF 250V (they are grey loking). Would the be an improvement? The styroflex caps you are talking about beeing not so good - what do these look like?

My aleph 5 uses 120.000 uF (12x10000 35v) folloved by 3mH and 88.000 uF (4x22000 35V Nippon 105). The first section has 4 of the mentioned 3.3 UF rifa caps. Based on your observations, what would you reccomend to improve

Thanks and best regards. Peter Jensen.
 
Nelson Pass said:
No, the resistances would be in parallel, which reduces the
resistance seen by the circuit.

yes but sommwhere(maybe in italian page "building reference power suply" or smth.. I read that conect too many smal caps(4700/6800uf) is not good idea. anyway I like to experiment by myself and sometimes it goes wel.. probably it is 784 times when You hearingthis but Thank You for good sound You have bring to my and my friends home here in Lithuania :smash:
 
Re: Aleph 5 PSU

webercarbmann said:
Hi elviukai

Interesting report you have on your capacitor experiments. The amplifier you are refering to - does it have a CLC filter or is it just one large block of capacitors? I have a large (100 or so) stock of Rifa polystyren 3,3uF 250V (they are grey loking). Would the be an improvement? The styroflex caps you are talking about beeing not so good - what do these look like?

My aleph 5 uses 120.000 uF (12x10000 35v) folloved by 3mH and 88.000 uF (4x22000 35V Nippon 105). The first section has 4 of the mentioned 3.3 UF rifa caps. Based on your observations, what would you reccomend to improve

Thanks and best regards. Peter Jensen.
hi, Petter IT noit is clc, but I am planing to put in L in theese lot of C. :)probably 2-3mH .. sadly that this amp PS will be dismountened because its too expensive to leave theese caps :bawling:

I will try to experiment with less expensive caps, and I think to give even more capasistance (arround 200uf of theese caps and 200 000uf electrolytic)

as for improovement I could not say anything about 3,3uf Rifa , I can only say that bypasing every electrolytic with 4,7- 30uf made significant changes even for non critical listeteners(i.e. my girlfriend) when bypased with 3,3 uf Philips caps something had changed but diference was minor comparing with the first amp.
 
elviukai said:
somewhere(maybe in italian page "building reference power suply" or smth.. I read that conect too many smal caps(4700/6800uf) is not good idea.

Remarkable, as many commercial amplifier builders have used this approach.
The most well known being the ASR Schafer & Rompf Emitter1
integrated amplifier from Germany, originating from the early 80s.
That amplifier offered a separate powersupply chassis filled with a tremendous number of small capacitors, over 200 KuF, and increasing it was an option.
Marketed for a very long time, who knows, they may still produce it.

There are plenty of members here that go for low esr rated capacitors, as those improve sound quality.
Standard, non-audio, type capacitors have horrible esr numbers.
Parallelling a large number of low value audio grade electrolytics
lowers the average esr dramatically enabling the powersupply to have voltage slewrates of 100s V/uS.
The downside is the cost, two small ones are more expensive than one big one of the same size.

Unless someone buys big surplus loads, like me :clown:
I just aquired a shipment of 100s of 4700 uF old surplus Roederstein EYF capacitors a few months ago, the most frequent used capacitor in audio equipment worldwide.
Which i am going to use to build arrays of capacitor banks for the
4 AL4's and 2 ZEN-AX's that i am constructing.

Read the powersupply notes on TNT.audio, or tech notes on Metaxas audio systems, to name just two.
 

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How dare we forget William's amplifiers !

Added touch :
heat dissipation in capacitors is :
P = Square I * R
R = esr

Take for 10 small caps esr as 10 times of that of 1 biggy.
Current is divided by 10.
Means : P = 1/10th of that of a single big capacitor.

And the heat generated in a capacitor is not only powerloss, it is also a parameter for capacitor life expectancy.
Divide the same heat over 10 small instead of a big one and temperature rise is lower.
The option for a large number of small caps extends the lifespan of the powersupply.
Saves money, mmmm, love that.

William uses Elna's for his Aleph-X, i think, the other being Roederstein EYS.
You may conclude the same as stated above by reading the Elna catalogue.
 
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