Making Alephs faster and more dynamic!

bbakota2000 · 26th December 2004, 03:15 PM

Hi guys,
Last couple of days I've been thinking how to make my Aleph 5 faster and more dynamic. I have one suggestion for the PSU, so you let me know what you think about it. It will have more filtration, more speed, very low output Z,... Sikorels and Fischer & Tausche elcos are really fast so that would be my choice.

Step up from this would be fast rectifier diodes (ST Micro BYW99W200 as Nelson suggested in one old thread).

What do you think? Will I be satisfied with these changes?

Merry Christmas everybody

analog_sa · 26th December 2004, 03:41 PM

Uh-oh! Another unauthorised use of Carlos snubber

bbakota2000 · 26th December 2004, 04:15 PM

What is Carlos snubber?

uli · 26th December 2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by analog_sa
Uh-oh! Another unauthorised use of Carlos snubber

*ROFL*

Uli

Panelhead · 26th December 2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bbakota2000
Hi guys,
Last couple of days I've been thinking how to make my Aleph 5 faster and more dynamic. I have one suggestion for the PSU, so you let me know what you think about it. It will have more filtration, more speed, very low output Z,... Sikorels and Fischer & Tausche elcos are really fast so that would be my choice.

Step up from this would be fast rectifier diodes (ST Micro BYW99W200 as Nelson suggested in one old thread).

What do you think? Will I be satisfied with these changes?

Merry Christmas everybody

This looks like a very nice power supply filter. Two things come to mind.

The Aleph's do not seem to respond to tweaking as much as most other designs. Using very high quality parts has much smaller effect on the sound. The better power supply may only provide a marginal improvement in sound quality.

I never use a single stage power supply filter anymore. If there is room a CLC is used, if not a CRC. All the bypass film caps are installed on the second stage of the filter. This takes care of the ringing. Using a bypass cap across a filter cap directly across from the diodes has always added noise, not remove it.
One easy tweak worth trying is to strap a fairly large (1- 2.2 ufd) film cap aross the +/- rail entry point on the circuit board. This buffered by the lead wire inductance and resistance. The sound quality should improve just as much as using the filter circuit drawn up.
For this application the Seimens stacked film and foil caps work great. The 1 ufd 100 volt are 25 cents and the 2.2 ufd 100v are a dollar at a local suplus shop. These have almost no sonic signature and have low inductance along with large bandwidth.

George

Mark A. Gulbrandsen · 26th December 2004, 04:58 PM

You might wwant to consider converting them into a pair of 2's and use a Rosenblit grounded grid line stage to drive them. I've been running an over biased pair of 2's for over two years now(with zero problems!) and recently added the Grounded Grid in place of my Aleph L line stage. I was absolutely stunned with the addition of the grounded grid at just how fast and dynamic the 2's are, and its no doubt the best sounding my system has ever been. Its an amazing combnation of line stage and power amp to say the least. My 2's have a CLC supply running about 44 volts on the rails plus or minus a volt or so depending on the local power company. BUT.... I don't really think you will hear all that much difference with your power supply changes!!

If you do build the GG line stage be sure to make the feedback resistor 150K and use decent quality 5 uf coupling caps in place of the 2uf. I think I used Multicap PPMFX in mine and bypassed them with a .1 wonder cap. The Grounded Grid cost me less to build that it will cost for you to make those power supply changes!

AWSOME!

Mark

stadams · 26th December 2004, 05:34 PM

bbakota2000,

Are your value selections arbitrary, following proven designs, or have you made calculations for these particular values? How did you determine the values for R1 and R2?

I like the idea of "upgrading" components in an attempt to bolster the performance of the power supply and the correct Sikorel capacitors would definitely be one of my choices. The R's that you have selected may provide you with the proper damping, however you really need to look at the power supply rails on an oscilloscope to see how the resistor/capacitor values that you have selected are effecting HF/RF noise on the rails. If you do use the ST diodes, noise may present itself to be less of a problem, but it is still worth looking at to really clean up the supply.

There are some other threads that you may want to look through when considering your design changes. At least one of the changes that you are considering could actually introduce noise problems if you do not look at the "snubbing" values experimentally. The ST diodes can help with this problem however. Also, do not forget about the effects the transformer has in the selection of the snubber components. But, if you are able to determine the noise effects experimentally, then the effect of the transformer is indirectly compensated and requires no direct attention.

Have you considered using regulation in your supply redesign?

Merry Christmas to you, and good luck with your redesign,

Mark A. Gulbrandsen · 27th December 2004, 01:28 AM

Sorry guys BUT.....I would normally never discourage anyone I doubt he will hear ANY difference with those power supply mods. The only mod that might help would be a CLC type supply to get the noise floor lower than it is..... but then that also requires careful selection of the input devices to get them as quiet as possible and take advantage of a very low ripple supply.

Mark

dantwomey · 27th December 2004, 02:17 AM

You might want to read NP's response to an old post of mine.
Top Ten Ways To A Better Aleph

Regards,
Dan

jwb · 27th December 2004, 02:34 AM

CRC power supply, or even a CRCRC supply, will provide an extremely quiet rail, and will not be suceptible to tank oscillation, which I think you might get with the original schematic, depending on the equivalent L and R of the capacitors specified.

The best way to keep ringing off your supply rails is to never have ringing in the first place. Use Schottky rectifiers if you can find ones big enough. Use soft/fast recovery diodes (e.g. Intl. Rectifier HFA series) otherwise. In my Aleph-X I used Schottky and do not regret it. I was initially afraid of the leakage power consumption, but these TO-247-packaged Schottky diodes are stone cold all the time, so no worries there.

If you DO use bad diodes, and you get ringing power supplies, you might try to find the article out there on the Internet, the title of which includes "Calculating Optimum Snubbers", if I recall correctly.

26th December 2004, 05:34 PM	#7
stadams diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South MS	Arbitrary values? bbakota2000, Are your value selections arbitrary, following proven designs, or have you made calculations for these particular values? How did you determine the values for R1 and R2? I like the idea of "upgrading" components in an attempt to bolster the performance of the power supply and the correct Sikorel capacitors would definitely be one of my choices. The R's that you have selected may provide you with the proper damping, however you really need to look at the power supply rails on an oscilloscope to see how the resistor/capacitor values that you have selected are effecting HF/RF noise on the rails. If you do use the ST diodes, noise may present itself to be less of a problem, but it is still worth looking at to really clean up the supply. There are some other threads that you may want to look through when considering your design changes. At least one of the changes that you are considering could actually introduce noise problems if you do not look at the "snubbing" values experimentally. The ST diodes can help with this problem however. Also, do not forget about the effects the transformer has in the selection of the snubber components. But, if you are able to determine the noise effects experimentally, then the effect of the transformer is indirectly compensated and requires no direct attention. Have you considered using regulation in your supply redesign? Merry Christmas to you, and good luck with your redesign, __________________ -Todd

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26th December 2004, 03:41 PM	#2
analog_sa diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sofia	Uh-oh! Another unauthorised use of Carlos snubber

26th December 2004, 04:15 PM	#3
bbakota2000 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Croatia	What is Carlos snubber?

26th December 2004, 04:58 PM	#6
Mark A. Gulbrandsen diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salt Lake City	You might wwant to consider converting them into a pair of 2's and use a Rosenblit grounded grid line stage to drive them. I've been running an over biased pair of 2's for over two years now(with zero problems!) and recently added the Grounded Grid in place of my Aleph L line stage. I was absolutely stunned with the addition of the grounded grid at just how fast and dynamic the 2's are, and its no doubt the best sounding my system has ever been. Its an amazing combnation of line stage and power amp to say the least. My 2's have a CLC supply running about 44 volts on the rails plus or minus a volt or so depending on the local power company. BUT.... I don't really think you will hear all that much difference with your power supply changes!! If you do build the GG line stage be sure to make the feedback resistor 150K and use decent quality 5 uf coupling caps in place of the 2uf. I think I used Multicap PPMFX in mine and bypassed them with a .1 wonder cap. The Grounded Grid cost me less to build that it will cost for you to make those power supply changes! AWSOME! Mark

27th December 2004, 01:28 AM	#8
Mark A. Gulbrandsen diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salt Lake City	Sorry guys BUT.....I would normally never discourage anyone I doubt he will hear ANY difference with those power supply mods. The only mod that might help would be a CLC type supply to get the noise floor lower than it is..... but then that also requires careful selection of the input devices to get them as quiet as possible and take advantage of a very low ripple supply. Mark

27th December 2004, 02:17 AM	#9
dantwomey diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada	You might want to read NP's response to an old post of mine. Top Ten Ways To A Better Aleph Regards, Dan

27th December 2004, 02:34 AM	#10
jwb diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, USA	CRC power supply, or even a CRCRC supply, will provide an extremely quiet rail, and will not be suceptible to tank oscillation, which I think you might get with the original schematic, depending on the equivalent L and R of the capacitors specified. The best way to keep ringing off your supply rails is to never have ringing in the first place. Use Schottky rectifiers if you can find ones big enough. Use soft/fast recovery diodes (e.g. Intl. Rectifier HFA series) otherwise. In my Aleph-X I used Schottky and do not regret it. I was initially afraid of the leakage power consumption, but these TO-247-packaged Schottky diodes are stone cold all the time, so no worries there. If you DO use bad diodes, and you get ringing power supplies, you might try to find the article out there on the Internet, the title of which includes "Calculating Optimum Snubbers", if I recall correctly.