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Old 10th July 2002, 01:55 AM   #1
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Default Grounding thev Balanced line stage(BoSoz)

Hi!

I have just finnished stuffing my pre amp and bought all the other parts, so it is time to fire it up and put in in a cabinet.
But, I don't really have any education or knowledge in this field of the Diy world so I need some help to wire the unit to ground.

First of all, I live in Norway where we don't have ground at our ac outlets from the wall.

1. The grond from the ac cord, where do I connect this?

2. the ground from the powersupply, where do I connect this?

3. the ground from circuite board, where do i connect it?

4. I am building the power supply and circuits in two different cases, will this change anything on the grounding?

Hope you can answer me and help me to finally hear some music!

Thanks,
Anders
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Old 10th July 2002, 06:21 PM   #2
nar is offline nar
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I suppose you start by making yourself an earth,possibly by using a thick insulated cable single wire which will go into your basement,and you fix it on a big copper pipe for used water.
....
Then you go to the local electronics store and buy yourself some CEE approved mains plugs,the"computer grade" ones with 3 pins.

Well,now you cable your mains and add the new created earthplug to the longest bit(should be up and in the middle).

Here you are for the basic setup

I suggest to rely directly your PSU box to EARTH,I mean the chassis.Then use a strong wire to rely this to the Preamp's chassis
You should have a 60V symetrical supply,makes 3 wires.Connect them to the main board.

Next step:all your in/out plugs should be common for their Ground pin(external of a RCA socket for example).To do so,use a single wire 1mm dia. to rely all the in/out sockets GNDS together.
(choose some "insulated from chassis "type,with plastic washers.)
Now rely this with ONE WIRE ONLY to the GND socket on the main board,on the +/0/- 60V.You can wrap it around the cables to output sockets,for example.

Logically,if you followed all this you must examinate that the cables from the input sockets DO NOT HAVE ANY GROUND LINKED TO THE MAIN BOARD,at the input audio pins on the main board.

I hope I have been clear enough,sorry for the long thread,and if still not clear I suggest you to go on the http://www.diymania.net ,where SYLEE did it and you would find a drawing he made on the Ground path in the preamp,very clear and he did it like that to avoid ground loops.

Anael

PS:I forgot just one thingn the PSU board,there is normally a power thermistor which links the GND to the real EARTH (the one you created going to the basement...
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Old 10th July 2002, 10:45 PM   #3
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Default Is this right then?

Thank you for your respons!

But let me sum it up:

I make my self an earth like you suggested, infact it is only 2m from the water pipes, so that was a good choice

I then earth to the power supply chassie, and then from there to the pre amp chassie.

The chassie(or earth from the water pipes) will then be connected to the powersupply ground through the thermistor.

I then connect this ground(from the powersupply board to the circuite board.

Then all my balanced xlr plugs, both inputs and outputs ground pin should be wired together and then connected with a single wire to the circuite ground on the circuite board.

Now the section you wrote:

"Logically,if you followed all this you must examinate that the cables from the input sockets DO NOT HAVE ANY GROUND LINKED TO THE MAIN BOARD,at the input audio pins on the main board."

I don't really see the logic here, coul you please explain. Also, is the above correct?

THanks you very much,
Anders
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Old 10th July 2002, 11:40 PM   #4
Keld is offline Keld  Sweden
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Hi
Just a little warning when you make your own earth in a room, you are introducing a hazard. You now have a earth potentiall in your DIY-gear and other mains equipment in the room is not grounded so if any other equipment fails (life to chassi) and you touch it and your homemade earth: ZAP- lights out! and I dont mean the lightbulbs.
Here in Sweden you are not allowed to mix grounded and not grounded outlets in the same room.

Hope you get what I'm trying to explain.

Keld
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Old 11th July 2002, 01:08 AM   #5
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Default Hmm

Hmm, I can't say I understand why though.
Can you explain?


Anyway,
my room is right next to the washing machine room which has got grounded outlets. What if I justv streth an extension cord from that room to mine and use it for the BLS.
It won't be a problem then will it?

Cheers,
Anders
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Old 11th July 2002, 01:47 AM   #6
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That would work fine but again be careful as Keld has already stated if one of the other appliances in that room fails and shorts to case you will have the full mains voltage on that case and earth potential on this case if you touch both of them at the same time you will get killed.
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Old 11th July 2002, 06:33 AM   #7
2Bak is offline 2Bak  Denmark
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I'm building the Bosoz, and living in Scandinavia also.
For my son I will not take such a risk.

How does it affect the sound quality if this preamplifier is not grounded? What else happens?

If earth grounding is a MUST I maybe have to give up my BosoZ.

/Jan
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Old 11th July 2002, 06:51 AM   #8
Duo is offline Duo  Canada
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I don't believe that groundin equipment is mandatory for good audio, though is preferrable. If you have a situation where some equipment is grounded and some not, this can be dangerous. So, if you decide to ground all you stuff and the preamp, make sure to have all chassies grounded to the same point either in a star or a bus configuration, but never have a ground loop. A ground loop occurs when you have a few pieces of equipment grounded chassie to chasse with an interconnect going to another grounded piece of equipment. You'll have a closed circuit from one ground through your equipment and through the interconnect cable to the other equipment, this almost always results in humming or interference with equipment.
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Old 11th July 2002, 11:22 AM   #9
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Unhappy Not good at all..

So if f.ex my cd player which is not grounded fails and shorts to case I will have all the voltage on that case,and the earth potensial in the preamp case, is this correct?

How would I connect the BoSoz without earth then?
As you see in the posts above I am having some problems

What if I use the cord from the bathroom so that all of the appliances in my stereo will be grounded, it won't be a problem then will it?

Thanks,
Anders
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Old 11th July 2002, 11:56 AM   #10
Keld is offline Keld  Sweden
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Hi
Quote:
What if I use the cord from the bathroom so that all of the appliances in my stereo will be
The danger is still there if you have any other electrical equipment in same room that is not grounded, like a lamp. Say that this lamp short the main to its chassi (assuming the lamp have metal parts).the lamp will still be working but if you touch the lamp and your stereo at the same time you get electrecuted. If you dont understand the dangers involved with mixing grounded and not grounded stuff dont mess with it, you can get yourself or, even worse, someone else killed.
I dont know anything about electrical standards in Norway but it shoud not be so difficult to change the outlets and get them connected to protective earth (ground).
About the sonic side of your problema i know nada.

Keld
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