so, after finally completing my aleph 3's and living with them for a bit, im not too thrilled. the sound is "ok" i guess, but its hard to tell because the gain is SO low. i tried using them as front channel amps, but the gain was too low, and i had to turn my pre-amp to almost full to get much of anything out of them (i admit, i do have inefficient speakers).
im using them as rear channel amps right now because they play at such a lower volume than my other amps, so i cant bi-amp with them. actually, i have a splitter on my pre-outs, and one cable goes to one amp, and the other to another amp. when i plug in the aleph3 with my other amp, it gets quieter. its like the other amp is sucking away its gain or something.
but anyways, im using them as rear channel amps, but they are SO quiet, that i have to adjust my fronts by -10dB. this "works" (even though there are still a bit quieter), but now my mains are -10dB! so, when listening to a cd or something, i have to turn it up 10dB more now, and i introduce a ton more noise, etc... because of the extra gain.
why are these so low, and has anyone else experienced this? im sure there is an easy way to fix it. i have had a few amps in my system, and they all seem to be about the same volume give or take. but these are just insanely low. any gain adjustments?
im using them as rear channel amps right now because they play at such a lower volume than my other amps, so i cant bi-amp with them. actually, i have a splitter on my pre-outs, and one cable goes to one amp, and the other to another amp. when i plug in the aleph3 with my other amp, it gets quieter. its like the other amp is sucking away its gain or something.
but anyways, im using them as rear channel amps, but they are SO quiet, that i have to adjust my fronts by -10dB. this "works" (even though there are still a bit quieter), but now my mains are -10dB! so, when listening to a cd or something, i have to turn it up 10dB more now, and i introduce a ton more noise, etc... because of the extra gain.
why are these so low, and has anyone else experienced this? im sure there is an easy way to fix it. i have had a few amps in my system, and they all seem to be about the same volume give or take. but these are just insanely low. any gain adjustments?
I think you have the answer. Your Aleph is only 30 watts. With inefficient speakers you may have a tuff time driving them to any volume. Also consider that you are feeding the Aleph using a single ended cable. Some preamps like my recently finished Aleph P have half the gain when using the single ended output. The full output can only be realized using the balanced output.
Not rootcausing the issue, but isnt your Pre/Pro have separate gain control on 5ch applications and 2ch application ?
If to be used on front as biamping, I think it is important to have relatively small gain differences between tweeter amp and base amp, if there is any. Also, small difference in sensitiviy of tweeter/woofer sets(incluiding speakers' cross over components if passive bypassing).
What front speakers/specs are you running ?
If to be used on front as biamping, I think it is important to have relatively small gain differences between tweeter amp and base amp, if there is any. Also, small difference in sensitiviy of tweeter/woofer sets(incluiding speakers' cross over components if passive bypassing).
What front speakers/specs are you running ?
splitting your pre-amp outs is not a good idea unless you have 2 of a kind amps...your other amp must be more compatible with your preamp than the Aleph 3. having two different gains on each amp, increasing the volume yields more on the other but lesser with the A3. Remember the A3 has an input imp of about 10k...NP always reminds us why he increased the Zen's input imp on the v4. With an Aleph P your A3 will blossom. My Zv4 (Aleph Zen 
) plays with my Musical Fidelity preamp nicely at about 2 o'oclock setting and it does not bother me because the sound is just phenomenal.
) plays with my Musical Fidelity preamp nicely at about 2 o'oclock setting and it does not bother me because the sound is just phenomenal.The one thing that bothers me is that I've seen no mention of level controls for the two amps; just a simple Y-cord. Surely you have level controls, don't you?
The Alephs have 20dB gain. Most amps average out around 26dB or so. Is 6dB difference in gain audible? You bet! Couple that with variations in speaker sensitivity, plus the possibility that whatever you're using for a preamp is wimping out trying to drive two amps at once, and you've got a recipe for trouble.
Can it be fixed? Of course. But you'll need level controls at a minimum, and quite probably a buffered output from your preamp that will have the muscle to drive two amps. Better still would be a buffer/driver stage for each amp.
Warm up your soldering iron.
Grey
The Alephs have 20dB gain. Most amps average out around 26dB or so. Is 6dB difference in gain audible? You bet! Couple that with variations in speaker sensitivity, plus the possibility that whatever you're using for a preamp is wimping out trying to drive two amps at once, and you've got a recipe for trouble.
Can it be fixed? Of course. But you'll need level controls at a minimum, and quite probably a buffered output from your preamp that will have the muscle to drive two amps. Better still would be a buffer/driver stage for each amp.
Warm up your soldering iron.
Grey
hum, well, here is a few questions, and a few responses.
first off, the "pre-amp" is a HT receiver being used as a pre-processor now. it doesnt have balanced, i haven't bought my new one just yet. this is for my HT system.
as far as 30 watts not being enough, the speakers are 4 ohm, and i have higher bias on the amp. from my dummy load, it seems im getting about 45 watts into 8, so it would be around 80-90 into 4.
the speakers run fine on that little power. there is definately a gain issue then. right now, im using identical rotel amps for the fronts. this works just fine. the aleph3's are being used as the rear channel amps. they arent using a splitter. they just simply need more gain.
i think i have the ground pin connected for the balanced in. im using kristijan's boards, and all grounds are grounded.
eventually, im doing an active xover (i bought the group buy one here), and that will be used with my aleph2's and the 3's in a bi-amped configuration...
so, the issue at hand is that its powering rear channel speakers at far too low of volume. so, the questions:
how can i measure the gain? someone suggested to simply measure the gain. how do i do this?
can i increase the gain to 26dB?
all the other amps in my system have 33k input imp. should i change the aleph3's to this as well?
first off, the "pre-amp" is a HT receiver being used as a pre-processor now. it doesnt have balanced, i haven't bought my new one just yet. this is for my HT system.
as far as 30 watts not being enough, the speakers are 4 ohm, and i have higher bias on the amp. from my dummy load, it seems im getting about 45 watts into 8, so it would be around 80-90 into 4.
the speakers run fine on that little power. there is definately a gain issue then. right now, im using identical rotel amps for the fronts. this works just fine. the aleph3's are being used as the rear channel amps. they arent using a splitter. they just simply need more gain.
i think i have the ground pin connected for the balanced in. im using kristijan's boards, and all grounds are grounded.
eventually, im doing an active xover (i bought the group buy one here), and that will be used with my aleph2's and the 3's in a bi-amped configuration...
so, the issue at hand is that its powering rear channel speakers at far too low of volume. so, the questions:
how can i measure the gain? someone suggested to simply measure the gain. how do i do this?
can i increase the gain to 26dB?
all the other amps in my system have 33k input imp. should i change the aleph3's to this as well?
A good HT receiver (at least Dolby Digital processing) should have a separate gain control for the rear channels...30W for the rears should be more than enough unless the spkrs are very inefficient (<<87dB/m). Have you tried your A3 as your front L/R amps or with different set of spkrs? With good matching of components you would be pleasantly surprised with what a Class A 30-watter can do.
its definately a higher-level one, (around $1k new). and it does have level matching, but my problem is that i can only turn things down, not boost... so, i end up turning my fronts down 10dB, which makes my pre-amp operate in its upper range because of the inherit inefficiency of my speakers. MikeW emailed me and told me how to adjust the gain to 26dB, or 30dB. i will do this and change the input impedence. that should work.
thanks everyone, ill let you know how it works out.
thanks everyone, ill let you know how it works out.
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