unhappy with aleph3

[cowanrg]

so, after finally completing my aleph 3's and living with them for a bit, im not too thrilled. the sound is "ok" i guess, but its hard to tell because the gain is SO low. i tried using them as front channel amps, but the gain was too low, and i had to turn my pre-amp to almost full to get much of anything out of them (i admit, i do have inefficient speakers).

im using them as rear channel amps right now because they play at such a lower volume than my other amps, so i cant bi-amp with them. actually, i have a splitter on my pre-outs, and one cable goes to one amp, and the other to another amp. when i plug in the aleph3 with my other amp, it gets quieter. its like the other amp is sucking away its gain or something.

but anyways, im using them as rear channel amps, but they are SO quiet, that i have to adjust my fronts by -10dB. this "works" (even though there are still a bit quieter), but now my mains are -10dB! so, when listening to a cd or something, i have to turn it up 10dB more now, and i introduce a ton more noise, etc... because of the extra gain.

why are these so low, and has anyone else experienced this? im sure there is an easy way to fix it. i have had a few amps in my system, and they all seem to be about the same volume give or take. but these are just insanely low. any gain adjustments?

[analog_sa]

The obvious thing to do is measure the gain. Is it 20db?

[kilowattski]

I think you have the answer. Your Aleph is only 30 watts. With inefficient speakers you may have a tuff time driving them to any volume. Also consider that you are feeding the Aleph using a single ended cable. Some preamps like my recently finished Aleph P have half the gain when using the single ended output. The full output can only be realized using the balanced output.

[hifi]

Is it a true aleph3 or is it an aleph 30? if the latter you need to short the negative pin on the balanced input to ground to get resonable gain

/micke

[kilowattski]

If you click on his website link you can see he has built an aleph 3 with single ended input. I wish I knew what preamp he is using.

[stefanobilliani]

Originally posted by cowanrg
so, after finally completing my aleph 3's and living with them for a bit, im not too thrilled. the sound is "ok" i guess, but its hard to tell because the gain is SO low. i tried using them as front channel amps, but the gain was too low, and i had to turn my pre-amp to almost full to get much of anything out of them (i admit, i do have inefficient speakers).

im using them as rear channel amps right now because they play at such a lower volume than my other amps, so i cant bi-amp with them. actually, i have a splitter on my pre-outs, and one cable goes to one amp, and the other to another amp. when i plug in the aleph3 with my other amp, it gets quieter. its like the other amp is sucking away its gain or something.

but anyways, im using them as rear channel amps, but they are SO quiet, that i have to adjust my fronts by -10dB. this "works" (even though there are still a bit quieter), but now my mains are -10dB! so, when listening to a cd or something, i have to turn it up 10dB more now, and i introduce a ton more noise, etc... because of the extra gain.

why are these so low, and has anyone else experienced this? im sure there is an easy way to fix it. i have had a few amps in my system, and they all seem to be about the same volume give or take. but these are just insanely low. any gain adjustments?

Yes , you want more gain ; increase the value of R104 to your preferred value : say from 22k to 100k , just chose what suits your system.

[kslim]

Not rootcausing the issue, but isnt your Pre/Pro have separate gain control on 5ch applications and 2ch application ?

If to be used on front as biamping, I think it is important to have relatively small gain differences between tweeter amp and base amp, if there is any. Also, small difference in sensitiviy of tweeter/woofer sets(incluiding speakers' cross over components if passive bypassing).

What front speakers/specs are you running ?

[Blues]

splitting your pre-amp outs is not a good idea unless you have 2 of a kind amps...your other amp must be more compatible with your preamp than the Aleph 3. having two different gains on each amp, increasing the volume yields more on the other but lesser with the A3. Remember the A3 has an input imp of about 10k...NP always reminds us why he increased the Zen's input imp on the v4. With an Aleph P your A3 will blossom. My Zv4 (Aleph Zen ) plays with my Musical Fidelity preamp nicely at about 2 o'oclock setting and it does not bother me because the sound is just phenomenal.

[GRollins]

The one thing that bothers me is that I've seen no mention of level controls for the two amps; just a simple Y-cord. Surely you have level controls, don't you?
The Alephs have 20dB gain. Most amps average out around 26dB or so. Is 6dB difference in gain audible? You bet! Couple that with variations in speaker sensitivity, plus the possibility that whatever you're using for a preamp is wimping out trying to drive two amps at once, and you've got a recipe for trouble.
Can it be fixed? Of course. But you'll need level controls at a minimum, and quite probably a buffered output from your preamp that will have the muscle to drive two amps. Better still would be a buffer/driver stage for each amp.
Warm up your soldering iron.

Grey

[PMA]

Originally posted by GRollins
Is 6dB difference in gain audible?

Grey

Yes, it is.