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Old 12th October 2004, 10:37 AM   #51
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Thanx for the help whith the picture!
I would very much like to se yuor schematics. Im very intressted in designing and building circlotrons.
My current design is that on the picture, and it works very good.
Its a klass a/b design and i use 4 IRF9530 /chanel.
ts by far the best sounding amp i ever had. I will some day modify the feedback to susy-feedback and crank up the quisent current in both stages.
(Sorry my English sucks, but i hope you understand what i mean.)
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Old 13th October 2004, 05:20 AM   #52
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default circlotron madness

I am trying to figure out your circlotron circuit.

This schematic is just and idea.
It is based on the Borgonio patent.

Please excuse me if my references to intellectual property are incomplete.
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Old 13th October 2004, 05:44 AM   #53
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default more circlotrons

Please excuse the hype on the schematic.

Note: I have not built or tested any aspect of this schematic.

The aleph section could be replaced with a ordinary current source or even a resistor.

A low power version or preamp could be built with IRF610's for example, with the aleph current source replaced with an ordinary current source.

A problem with this circuit would be the output offset voltage.

Of course these ideas come from tube circuits.

Tom
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Old 14th October 2004, 06:54 AM   #54
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Default Re: circlotron madness

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom2
This schematic is just and idea.
It is based on the Borgonio patent.
Tom2, I think there is a drawing error in your circuit.
I think the outer ends of R8 and R9 should both go to the earthed junction of V3+V4.

Hmmm... the resistor Rx that connects U1- to U2- can't be left just floating and connecting two inputs; it will have to have some dc connection (even if via a high value resistor) to somewhere.

Also, what is the reason for R6/D1 and it's neighbour? I can sort of see what it is going to do but I can't see the reason yet.
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Old 14th October 2004, 12:10 PM   #55
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default circuit errors

Circlotron thanks for asking.
The circuit is a very idealized representation.
Things like compensation and stabilty are not even addressed.

From what I understand of the circuit, at the quiescent point(no signal input, inputs at zero volts), the outputs across the load sit at zero volts with respect to the ground point of the voltage supplies V3 and V4 for the CFB amps(via feed back action of R2 and R3 or R4 and R5). Thus a potential exists across the resistors R8 or R9 equal to the voltage of V4, thus current flow from the output nodes to the negative supply terminal(V4) through each resistor is equal to V4/R8 or V4/R9. Since the circloton voltage sources (V1 and V2) and output transistors(Q1, Q2) form a closed loop, this current must come from the output of the U1 and U2, thus this is the base current for Q1 and Q2, thus sets the circulating bias current for the circlotron loop. The circulating current is thus equal to beta of Q1 or Q2 times current through R8 or R9.

The negative inputs are low impedance inputs of U1 and U2 because they are CFB amps. You might be right there should be resistors to ground. I was looking at the schematic in
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...639#post129639
Post#8 in the Monolithic SuperSymmetry with Current Feedback thread for example.
Also resistors could be added from the positive inputs of U1 and U2 to ground if the inputs are left to float(as seen in other susy circuits).

I think???, the resistor, diode, R6,D1, increases the circlotron circulating current when the corresponding node goes positive with respect to ground. This prevents Q2 from cutting off(since Q1 is conducting more and Q2 is conducting less to force current through the load because of the amplifying action). R7, D2 does the same for Q1 for the "opposite cycle". I thought of leaving them out initially for simplicity. I'm still unclear about their operation

If mosfets are used for output devices then the biasing scheme is obviously different.

I like playing around with circuits in an abstract way, with sometimes no attention paid to if the circuit could actually be built, work or sound good. Sometimes sort of a copy, cut and paste
method to see if different ideas can be combined; not even completely understanding a circuit.

I have many ideas for susy circuits and susy-hybrid circuits.

Do people on this forum find "fuzzy" audio circuits like this one useful? -- or do circuits need to be more diy-able?


Tom
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Old 14th October 2004, 12:57 PM   #56
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Fuzzy circuits are great. Probably also a note to say they are such, so if someone doesn't realise but still wants to go ahead and learn stuff -> then they are forewarned.
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Old 15th October 2004, 10:42 AM   #57
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default SuSy circuit

Here is a fuzzy SuSy circuit you might find interesting.
Again it is an idealized circuit.
I would few it in an universal amplifier context.

It is not a circlotron.
Gotta take a break from those circlotrons.
To much mind candy.

Tom
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Old 17th October 2004, 11:03 AM   #58
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default XCG's

Here are some more SuSy circuits. They use opamps. (I know---girlie chips)

I would call these circuits "inies" as compared to some of the Nelson Pass gain clone supersymmetry design "outies" (e.g. GC-SS-4a).

IMHO the XGC2 circuit also shows a possible way to modify (for example the GC-SS-2a), so the common mode signal input impedance does not look like a negative resistance.


Also something I found recently.
Look at US patents 6,741,129 and 6,717,467. High frequency stuff though.

Tom
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Old 19th October 2004, 09:38 PM   #59
Tom2 is offline Tom2  United States
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Default Pass-Hawksford circuit

Remove R5, R6, R7, R8 for a SuSy circuit.
Remove R1, R2, R3, R4, R9 and connect the bases of Q1 and Q4 to ground for a CMAC bridge.

Tom
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Old 19th August 2006, 08:27 PM   #60
DIGORA is offline DIGORA  Belgium
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Default Re: circlotron madness

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom2
I am trying to figure out your circlotron circuit.

This schematic is just and idea.
It is based on the Borgonio patent.

Please excuse me if my references to intellectual property are incomplete.
hello

It can work in class AB ?
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