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Old 4th July 2004, 12:39 PM   #31
uli is offline uli  Austria
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Default statement

btw here is a statement from the master.



'Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny' F.Zappa
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Old 4th July 2004, 03:09 PM   #32
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For the record:

As a moderator, I (we) are protecting the interest of the forum. What KK (and DIYZone for that matter) is doing is illegal and is therefore not welcome on the forum.

When the incident came to our attention we contacted Nelson Pass as we have with other manufacturers in the past under similar circumstances. The Pass Lab infringements are so visible because he is such a prominent member of our forum and he is so generous with his IP.

What the manufacture does to protect his/her IP is up to them. Our concern is the forum.

Kristijan did aquire permission to sell the Aleph series boards. I don't know the details of that agreement or what other boards it covers, but I do know it does not include the AX (XA) design.

What Kristijan did or will do from here forward is and has been strictly up to him. He is free to enter into these discussions as he is still a member of the forum. He just has to follow the rule like everyone else.
Rodd Yamashita
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Old 4th July 2004, 04:03 PM   #33
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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yeah, yeah, Rodd,
you made your point.
I have been riding kk's ***, in a semi-friendly manner, for the past two years about his board sideshow business even for just selling aleph boards.
It amazes me the fervor with which you are stating your current position since you are just now awakening to the situation.
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Old 4th July 2004, 04:36 PM   #34
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Originally posted by roddyama
Kristijan did aquire permission to sell the Aleph series boards. I don't know the details of that agreement or what other boards it covers, but I do know it does not include the AX (XA) design.
Originally posted by grataku

I have been riding kk's ***, in a semi-friendly manner, for the past two years about his board sideshow business even for just selling aleph boards.
Rodd Yamashita
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Old 4th July 2004, 07:32 PM   #35
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I don't recall giving Kristijan permission to sell Aleph boards,
but that does not mean I didn't, as I have granted permission
many times to use my IP on a not-for-profit basis.

The Aleph circuits are copyrighted, patented, and trademarked,
as are X and XA (Aleph X, if you like) and Zen products. At this
time, no one has been granted permission to commercially use
these properties, although we have an informal verbal agreement
with DECware not to step on each other's toes over the use of
the Zen name, and that's only because he's a nice guy.

pass:/ easy to get along with.
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Old 4th July 2004, 07:53 PM   #36
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Sounds clear2me.

In that case I will donate $10 per pcb to the diyaudio forum as soon as my Aleph5 @ kk pcbs is ready.

Don't hold your breath though, cause I'm taking it really easy with the Aleph.

btw where can I donate, is there some paypal thingie?
Is that all there is?
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Old 5th July 2004, 01:30 AM   #37
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Location: CROATIA

My name is Kristijan Kljucaric.

There are a quite of threads on this forum that mentioned me and my site with the PCBs.
There are very often some untrue statements and assumptions about me that some peoples
said there, but before that noone did not actually contact me directly to verify any of them.
I am 26, and I live in Zagreb, Croatia, Europe.
I am partially disabled, so I have little more free time for my hobbies : RC airplanes, DIY
electronics, and HI-FI.
This is why there is a lots of time and efforts spent on designing mentioned PCBs.
The main part of the my DIY are amplifiers and speakers.
The Pcb-Design is not a company, it is a simply the name of my website.
I do not sell or provide any kits or ready maded electronic equipment, nor usually sell or provide any
electronic components, except the PCBs that are on my site and that I designed.
There was only four Aleph 3 PCBs that I helped to assemble for the two persons, and
there was a some transistors that I matched for 10-15 peoples for their Aleph projects.

Till now, I did not participate in any of these above mentioned IP discussions, and I don't
plan too often, as some peoples already made up their minds regardless of what I or anyone
else would say, and as they are endless ...

The only real and right person that matters here about the IP is the Mr.Pass and his company,
and not others that would make endless discussions on this forum, kao ''... babe na placu ...'' :-).

I still don't see why it is ok to write the link of my website
on the Passdiy official website, (it was also here for over
last 2 years), and now it is suddenlly not allowed here on forum by one moderator.
There are also the PCBs that I made, and that are already published in Pass gallery:

Also, I asked for, and get, the permission to make the Aleph PCBs before I
placed them to my website (around 15.4.2002).

At first they had an objection about the PCBs, and they emediatelly
contact me directly about this matter.
As you can see, on the every Pass project PCB that is on my website is very
cleary printed and etched 'PASS LABS CLONE', which is actually the label that
the Mr.Desmond of Pass Labs originally recommended ;


I also went and looked at your web site - very nice. We do have one
request - can you remove "PASS LABS" from the PCBs that you sell.
Having other PCBs out there in the world with PASS LABS on them only
creats confusion and lessens the value of the orignals.

You could call them VIP Alephs or Aleph Clones or something like that.




Thanks for understanding our point, we need to protect our commercial end so
we can continue to support the DIY side.

Labelling your PCB as "Pass Labs Clone" is fine by us.

As for your "Pass Labs Clone Aleph 5", I like the board layout, looks very
clean and symmetrical.


Before I placed the Aleph-X PCBs to my website, I did not specificlly asked
for the Aleph-X PCBs permission, as I felt that there is no difference between
them and regular Aleph PCBs, they both are patented by Pass Labs and thus
are the same regarded with the IP.
However, when moderator ( roddyama ) contact me about AX IP,
I emediatelly e-mailed Mr.Pass directly (13.6.2004 , and
asked is it ok to make AX boards, but till now I still did not get an answer.
I still have a copy of this mail, and waiting for the response.

Also, Mr.Pass is the member of this forum who very offten visits it, and he for
shure did not missed my website with Aleph-X PCBs, so if he had any of objections
about AX he would for shure contact me about this matter and I would gladly comply.

The every PCB on my website is designed by me.
The PCBs are for the DIY purposes only, and are maded in very small qty, as I make
them in 10 pcs series after someone contact me and would like to build the project with them.
As for the Aleph-X boards, I made only 6 of them so far...
These PCBs are maded for a small profit tough, but which is low and which I use for
testing the projects with these PCBs, making and designing the new ones, and for
helping other diyers, so at the end there is almost no high profit .

There are also peoples around the world that received the PCBs from me completely free
when they asked for help to fix their projects that they build incorrectly,
or their goverment do not allow to buy anything outside of their country, or some that
simply could not afford to buy them, and so on ...

Also, I believe that I helped many persons with their projects regardless of if they get
mine PCBs or not, and I was and I am willing still whenever I am able to.
There are a lots of peoples, even on this forum, which I believe that can support this...

At the end, as there are every now and then threads started the with the endless
discussions about me and PCBs, and as I would like to stop them, I would like again
to ask here Mr.Pass directly on his opinion.
I am aware that this was stated many times by now, but it seems that there were simply
not enough, as these discussions are still not ending.

If I caused anyone any kind of problem by any way, please accept my deepest
appologies, and let me know if I can do anything to correct them.

Thank you all for your time, and I am sorry about my English and this little too long post.
...infact, this is the my the longest post ever on this forum. :-)

Very best regards from Croatia,
Kristijan Kljucaric
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Old 5th July 2004, 02:11 AM   #38
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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i think it would be an excellent idea if somehow nelson's boards could be produced somehow through this forum and any profit could go to the forum. similar to a group buy... however, it would have to be steadier than a group purchase and possibly a little higher quality... but i would pay an extra $10 for a set of boards for sure.
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Old 5th July 2004, 03:44 AM   #39
Variac is offline Variac  Costa Rica
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Even cooler would be that Nelson produces boards and uses the profits to pay the person mailing the boards, ordering the boards, inventoriing the boards.

The problem with Kristijan is not as clear cut as giving some bucks to DIY Audio after ordering from him.

The point is that he is selling them for around $50 I believe, plus more for shipping, which has to mean a profit.

I suspect he can get them produced more cheaply than in the US at least.

I gotta admit- he makes a pretty layout though....

BUT if I'm paying $50 for a board, I'd rather feel that it is going to the correct person.
"The geek shall inherit the earth"
Burning Amp thread here on diyAudio
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Old 5th July 2004, 03:47 AM   #40
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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to his credit, shipping is included. so, for small production boards, shipping included (it cant be cheap to ship to US), he isnt making THAT much. considering he probably only sells a few pairs a month, its hardly an income.
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