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Old 4th July 2004, 01:29 AM   #21
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So we need to buy software for 5000USD, learn it and then make a pcb?
nobody need $5k software to make a PCB, if you do, better not diy anything. There are plenty ways to make your own PCB. Also there are enough readymade layout posted on this board, you only need to learn how to use the search button - and the best: its for free. In case you want to spend 5000$ feel free to do so, diyaudio.com could need it.

Also, there were >>1k PCBs for aleph X made, but only a few amps finished. In case someone really want a pair im sure some members would offer to send him. But before this i advice to think about costs for heatsinks, transformers, and caps. The PCB is a cheap part compared to those, and one you do not really need. p2p and veroboard works also.
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Old 4th July 2004, 04:07 AM   #22
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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i was unaware of the fuzz going on with kristijan.

i was just simply commenting that he has a nice product at a good price (for me anyways). if you havent seen his boards, they are quite nice. so, for me its worth it, and i just wanted to pass on the deal to a fellow member, i didnt get the memo not to promote his site, my bad.
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Old 4th July 2004, 07:22 AM   #23
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roddyama e.a.,

for my first project I used kristijans boards for the aleph5 just because it came with excellent quality and very good support and documentation. This last was probably why I succeded in having music out of a playing amplifier instead of having to tweak and search of errors with my second project (my first failed because of lack in understanding what I was doing ). I agree tweaking and compasating for errors has a bigger learning aspect but that is sometimes not the point, "music will do just fine thank U".
If it weren't for kristjans boards (and the quality is superb) I probably woudn't have go one building and now learning more about pass amps including the aleph-x.

Ralph

ps for all those who still wants kristijans webadress look in the gallery at passdiy.com under:
Balanced Zen Line Stage
and you will find kristijans line stage with his webadress clearly stated in the text...


http://www.passdiy.com/gallery/bzls-p2.htm
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Old 4th July 2004, 07:30 AM   #24
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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his address is posted on my website as well.

however, if his boards are being produced against the wishes of Nelson Pass, regardless of quality and workmanship, then they shouldnt be used or purchased.
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Old 4th July 2004, 07:37 AM   #25
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Originally posted by cowanrg
however, if his boards are being produced against the wishes of Nelson Pass, regardless of quality and workmanship, then they shouldnt be used or purchased.
Where does NP state this ???, he only says that there are more than enough non-profit sources. With that I agree but for a rookie or newbie as I myself was at that time, you get more than only a pcb
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Old 4th July 2004, 08:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by rwagter


Where does NP state this ???, he only says that there are more than enough non-profit sources. With that I agree but for a rookie or newbie as I myself was at that time, you get more than only a pcb

This action against Kristijan was not taken lightly by the moderators. We all realize the contributions that he has made on this forum and its members. It was just before this thread was posted earlier this month that he started offering the AX boards for sale on his site. Before anything was done, Nelson Pass was contacted and verified that he had not given Kristijan the copyrights to this design. At that point Kristijan was contacted and asked to remove the boards from his site or the link from his signature. He chose instead, not to post since that time.

We (the moderators) are responsible for the content on this forum and no other. I would love to see Kristijan comply with our request and start posting again, but that is his choice. Until that time we cannot allow the link to his site to be posted on the forum.


Personally IMO his persistance in selling the AX boards is illegal and detremental to the forum. This instance, and others like it, are the reason that there are not more exciting designs like those from Pass Labs being posted on the forum. Why should others post their IP on the forum only to have it pirated and sold on the open market.
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Old 4th July 2004, 10:01 AM   #27
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Ahhh, now I get it.
You are protecting NP's IP, why not let NP decide from case to case (like diyzone.net) what his oppinion is.

Not to offend you but what you do is what we call in the netherlands literally translated a :"moral knight" of moraal ridder.

Ralph
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Old 4th July 2004, 11:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by rwagter
...why not let NP decide from case to case (like diyzone.net) what his oppinion is.
What makes you think he hasn't?
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Old 4th July 2004, 11:34 AM   #29
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Me 2 is using the KK pcbs for my Aleph5 and can confirm that Kristijan is really helpfull (specially for noobs like me). But that isn't the issue here, I guess. I never knew that there where legal problems with these boards. I just as well would have used some pcbs based on the Passlabs layout (but that wasn't as readily available at the time). Making you own pcbs based on some layout pic is a huge obstacle for people like me (of course after some time you see that it is not that difficult when using some commercial pcb service). However on the diyaudio nobody objected the KK Alephs boards at that time afaik.

I'm not a lawyer. Is it a problem because the AX circuit is still in production and the Alephs are not?? Personally I don't see that big a differency between the Aleph-X pcbs form the groupbuy (which were magnificent and bone cheap) and the KK AX pcb. Okay, KK is selling the pcbs on a (semi) commercial basis with a small profit (that is probably the big difference isn't it?) . However again it goes that newcomers, that missed the groupbuy boat, now have a chance to buy something equivalent for a reasonable price (imo). Ofcourse without the generousity of mr Pass we would not be able to make these beautiful amps at all.

I understand that somewhere you must draw the line (to protect Passlabs as a company). Although I don't think that people that are in the market for a bare pcb are also considering a brand new factory Pass labs at the same time (maybe some years later). However the next phase is selling complete Pass kits (for around $1000), and after that probably complete working Pass amp clones (for $2000 or more).

Well just some mixed personal thougts on the subject, I don't see an easy solution here. Maybe if KK has some kind of licence from mr Pass, but that is not for me to say.
I guess I understand the actions of the moderators, they do have some responsablity here. However I don't like it, but I think they don't like this too.
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Old 4th July 2004, 01:12 PM   #30
uli is offline uli  Austria
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Default moral

just my 2 cts.

I believe that it is at least immoral if not illegal to use another
mans IP without his permission. What would you guys build
if NP would not have been that generous with his IP!
Remember that everything including ZEN, ALEPH, X, XA is his
property. I believe that anybody who makes a business ( and
exactly that does KK) out of another mans property should at
least ask for permission AND pay royalties to the owner of the
copyright.
Without a doubt this is commercial business, especially as KKs
pricepolicy is very much business oriented.
I do not consider 48 Euros which are about 58 USD for one board
a bargain!

All members of this board should think over whose generosity
makes it possible for us all to build such exceptional stuff, and
who led the community to the success in building XA (AX if you
want) circuitry.
There are many pcb designs (XA, AX) for free on this board, so
everybody can use them.
There is no reason to support infringement by buying commercially
made pcbs!
If you have trouble in getting your pcbs professionally made, look
at PCB-POOL

Everybody who puts his pcb designs on the board (like me) would
be glad to share his (or her) design files!

Uli

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