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Old 13th June 2004, 01:27 PM   #21
fcel is offline fcel  United States
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My opinion/thoughts ....

I thought there is such a thing called the set up cost which is quite a lot compared to the boards itself. We here at this forum often have huge group buys and thus those set up cost are being absorbed. I don't think KK is going to wait until he has 500 orders before he starts producing the boards. So may be $50 per board cost is reasonable?

As for the permission to use the circuit. When I was thinking about building another set of Aleph 2, I was thinking of buying the boards from KK. I asked KK if he has permission from Mr. Pass. KK said yes. Is there any reason for me to not believe him?

Just so that I don't give the wrong impression, I have never bought anything from KK. I was able to get extra boards from this forum several follow up group buys of the Aleph 2 boards.

As for the Aleph-X boards, I have no intention of buying more because I have plenty already from our US group buys and I have not corresponded with KK.
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Old 13th June 2004, 01:34 PM   #22
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Is there any reason for me to not believe him?
Yes. If what he says is true, Nelson Pass is lying to me and the other moderators. That's, ummmm, unlikely.

Drop Passlabs an email if you don't believe me.
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Old 13th June 2004, 01:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by grataku
The bulk purchases are now handled mostly by mods, and they are no longer at cost (see Rodd second Cardas purchase), and the proceedings are used to finance DIYAUDIO.com

I have never seen such veement display of disapproval of someone's practice by two mods like I am seeing here. My guess is that that the mods are ****ed because they are not getting a cut from Kristian. That's as simple as that.
For the record, besides the few connectors I got from the bulk purchase, there were no other profits. DIYAudio didn't get one red cent. The reason for this was the lack of attention I paid to putting the orders together. It created some misshipments and anything that would have went to DIYAudio went to the USPS instead.

WRT Kristijan, the issue is not profit, although at $50 a board compared to Chad's $10/pair, I don't see how he is not making a good profit. The issue here is his unauthorized use of Nelson's IP for that profit.

He had obtained permission from Passdiy to sell the Aleph boards but not the Aleph-X boards. There have been no "veement displays" of anything here. It was nearly 2 months ago that Kristijan was asked to either remove the link to his site or remove the boards from his site. He chose to do neither and hasn't been back since even though his account is still active. He can post in this thread if he likes, as long as he doesn't link to his site which still carry the boards in question.

fcel,

Nelson was nice enough to give Kristijan the keys to the stationwagon and he came back a year later and took the Ferrari without permission.
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Old 13th June 2004, 01:48 PM   #24
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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SYl,
KK has pictures of his project on passdiy and a reference to his site on it too.
My guess? KK asked NP, and NP, being the sweetheart he is, said yes. He just didn't know/realize the precedent he was setting and extent to which he was signing a blank check.
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:41 PM   #25
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Default This song is getting old.........

First off, we have this gem:

Quote:
I insisted that Rodd do the first CARDAS purchase, he was very reluctant for fear of loosing money, the rest is history.
A lot has changed between then and now. My original idea with the bulk purchases was to give the audiophile their cake and allow them to eat it, too. Bottom line the thing was to be done at cost. Alot has changed since then and now I find myself to be in agreement with the mods for the WRONG reasons. The bulk purchases are now handled mostly by mods, and they are no longer at cost (see Rodd second Cardas purchase), and the proceedings are used to finance DIYAUDIO.com
Which is what a lot of us feel......

That the moderators are here not so much as to moderate, but to make $$ for DIY.

So, one of the good guys comes back with:


Quote:
For the record, besides the few connectors I got from the bulk purchase, there were no other profits. DIYAudio didn't get one red cent. The reason for this was the lack of attention I paid to putting the orders together. It created some misshipments and anything that would have went to DIYAudio went to the USPS instead.
So....if you had not been busy doing your real job, you would have put more time into it, and therefore..........

DIY would have made money????

Sure sounds that way to me.

Which brings us back around to:

DIY now seems to be about making money, and it will fall on the mods to see to that it does make money.

Which explains why they defend questionable practices wrt IP when someone that has "commercial potential" does it. And not when an outsider to their clique does it.

Yeah, it stinks. You can threaten to bin the whole lot of us, and if it makes some of you feel beter about yourself, then don't threaten, just do it.

But this issue is going to get swept under the rug by binning a handful of malcontents.

You guy need to come clean.....all the way.....set the record straight.......iow 'fess up to what DIY is all about now, and discipline yor own the way you do to others.


Jocko
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:44 PM   #26
SY is offline SY  United States
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As I once said to Frank in a different context, where's my check?
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Old 13th June 2004, 04:05 PM   #27
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Default What makes you think that you will get one?

What makes you think that they ever will give you one?

Money for DIY does not equal money for SY...and Rod.....and the rest of the gang. Doubt that it ever will.

No, you are supposed to fend for yourself, and make your own money, and then feign interest in it, claiming that you only do it as a hobby. Like some of the other mods do.

Or hasn't that possibility come to you? C'mon SY, you are smarter than a lot of us.

Or maybe they just haven't told you all the scam yet.

Jocko
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Old 13th June 2004, 05:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: What makes you think that you will get one?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jocko Homo
Or maybe they just haven't told you all the scam yet.
When you find out what the scam is, Jocko, could you tell me as well please?
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Old 13th June 2004, 05:30 PM   #29
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Anyway, official hat on.

Could we keep to the topic please, if anyone wants to complain about moderation, there are plenty of other threads to do it on!

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Old 13th June 2004, 08:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: This song is getting old.........

Sorry PM, perhaps you can split off a new mod bashing thread,

The following represents a personal rant, and is not an official statement of the forum, but i know, as the captain of the mods it will carry some weight, and is shaped & informed by the position i hold.

<rant>

Quote:
Originally posted by Jocko Homo
DIY now seems to be about making money, and it will fall on the mods to see to that it does make money.
Change is inevitable...

DIY still remains 1st & formost about DIY. As of January this year, diyAudio.com has to pay for itself -- there is no-one entity generously subsidizing the whole thing as in the past. diyAudio is not for-profit, but does need to figure out how to, and continue to generate, some way, some how, a significant amount of money just to stay on-line. That is a bleak reality.

With exploding growth of the forum, the cost of keeping this a place to come keeps growing. You have already seen cost-cutting measures put in place, to hopefully keep costs within available funds. diyAudio's success could well be its downfall.

Accidental profits from overwhelmingly successful group buys is just one way members have helped -- the most generous ones had no mods involved -- and has been found by almost everyone brave enuff to co-ordinate a group buy, there are lots of unseen gotchas.

The unofficial (as of yet) beg-a-thon has been quite successful, with some substantial donations from some members (you know who you are, i thank you, and i know diyAudio thanks you), and once this is in full-swing we hope to see even more. Other means of raising money are also being considered. We are still early on in the process of finding what works and what doesn't. We will continue to endeavor to do it in ways that have as little impact, or in some cases, benifits to the forum members (i have seen many an accolade from those receiving stuff from group buys).

Now there is a very small group of members (lets call them the Gang of 5 (or 6 or 7 ...)) that always seem to be very vocally snipe hunting anything they can grab onto (i expect a stream of invective to follow...) -- real or (most often) imagined. To them i say, help or get out of the way, because the way i see it you are only hurting what you claim to be trying to save (or maybe it is just that their day is not complete without handing out a dose of vitiol).

I guess, perhaps, that we should be thankful that only a dozen or so out of almost 15,000 members are such a PITA.

<end rant>

dave
planet10/member in good standing at diyAudio for a long time & frequent poster, and always trying to contribute as much as i get
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