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Pass X2 and negative feedback
Pass X2 and negative feedback
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Old 8th May 2002, 11:02 AM   #1
BRunenr is offline BRunenr
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Default Pass X2 and negative feedback

Is the first version build entirely without negative feedback as Balanced Line Stage of SOZ, or is small amount of local feedback used, as in Aleph P 1.7?

Sorry for my bad english.
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Old 8th May 2002, 02:39 PM   #2
GRollins is offline GRollins  United States
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By definition, the X topology is a feedback system. If you remove the feedback, it isn't "X" anymore.

Grey
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Old 8th May 2002, 02:39 PM   #3
Petter is offline Petter
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I would not know, but my guess is that is uses the X-topology which relies on feedback.

Usually you can read up on such things in user manuals from www.passlabs.com

Petter
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Old 8th May 2002, 06:38 PM   #4
BRunenr is offline BRunenr
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In user manual mr. Pass writes: "The first version used diferential Mosfet circuits operated without feedback." But I am unsure, if it means entirely without feedback or only without global feedback as in AlephP 1.7.
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Old 9th May 2002, 08:35 PM   #5
Nelson Pass is offline Nelson Pass  United States
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Pass X2 and negative feedback
When I say "without feedback" I generally mean
no feedback loop, just degeneration if that.

When I say "no global feedback" I mean no loop from
input to output, although there might be local loops.
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Old 9th May 2002, 09:18 PM   #6
BRunenr is offline BRunenr
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Thanks for explanation mr. Pass. I was interested in Aleph P circuit evolution.
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Old 9th May 2002, 10:10 PM   #7
GRollins is offline GRollins  United States
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Apologies...I tend to think of X and "Super Symmetry" as synonyms, and since X is easier to type (I was born lazy, then had a relapse), I tend to use the one letter when possible.
Silly me.

Grey
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Old 10th May 2002, 04:10 AM   #8
AudioFreak is offline AudioFreak  Australia
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Pass X2 and negative feedback
Grey that's why it was shortened to Su-Sy

Su-Sy is not a destructive form of feedback and should not be viewed in the same light as negative feedback.
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Old 10th May 2002, 05:13 AM   #9
GRollins is offline GRollins  United States
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By my reckoning, the letter X only requires one keystroke, whereas Su-Sy takes five.
Ma pore widdle fingers can't take all tha' extra poundin'...

Grey

(Still doesn't excuse me for being mentally sloppy. Seems I'm missing a lot of details this week. I'll try to get some sleep and be back on track tomorrow...or the next day...or the next...)
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Old 20th May 2002, 07:32 PM   #10
Petter is offline Petter
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Default Good and bad feedback

There is no such thing as good and bad feedback.

The X-circuits in the big power amps (which only licensees of Nelson Pass can use provided patent holds and no workaround can be found) employ local feedback to around a single voltage gain stage. This is very similar to basic op-amp theory (but most op-amps have multiple internal stages, and feedback around these have become universally detested in audio).

Feedback is a method to reduce noise etc. Degeneration is generally considered the "least harmful". The next level, I will call feedback around single loop for lack of a better name, and this is the method used in the X-series power amps.

Feedback free amplifiers are like Yeti's -- many have seen them, but nobody can produce one.

Petter
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