Many class A lovers will thank me for this 1!
Electro-Kinetic pums are comming!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.cooligy.com/electrokinetic_pump.html
First use will be for super quiet PCs. Article:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1476
Soon, we will should be able to make a class A amp with all the mosfets squeezed into the smallest possible surface shortening all traces/wireing, OR, use minimum mosfets/transistors again in a condensed PCB while the water cooling will allow for a remote large radiator heatsink.
Electro-Kinetic pums are comming!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.cooligy.com/electrokinetic_pump.html
First use will be for super quiet PCs. Article:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1476
Soon, we will should be able to make a class A amp with all the mosfets squeezed into the smallest possible surface shortening all traces/wireing, OR, use minimum mosfets/transistors again in a condensed PCB while the water cooling will allow for a remote large radiator heatsink.
I've been water cooled on my Aleph 2s for quite some time now, but that's with a pump.
Recently I replaced the heat pumps here at the house and ended up with two more heat exchangers in the process. Not exactly a silver lining to the cloud, but perhaps a lighter shade of black. I've been threatening to run tubing and try a convection system, i.e. no pump at all. Before I commit the Alephs to such a strategy, I'll experiment with resistors and see if the thing cools well. Given my current time constraints, it'll be a while before I get to try it, though.
Grey
Recently I replaced the heat pumps here at the house and ended up with two more heat exchangers in the process. Not exactly a silver lining to the cloud, but perhaps a lighter shade of black. I've been threatening to run tubing and try a convection system, i.e. no pump at all. Before I commit the Alephs to such a strategy, I'll experiment with resistors and see if the thing cools well. Given my current time constraints, it'll be a while before I get to try it, though.
Grey
I think you miss understood, Electro-Kinetic pump is nothing more than a distilled water pump, nothing else. It's the heatsink side which does the cooling. The pump has no moving parts & if the water is really well distilled (pure H2O), the pump should run continuously for a few decades. Since it's somethin like a big capacitor & resistor in parallel, there is no worry about any inteferance signals being transmitted to the amp, like a pump motor, or fan motor. It also makes no noise like conventional pumps, or fans.
The laws of physics can't be changed...
I'm afraid we're chasing a red herring. The pump is nothing more than a mean for taking heat from one place (the MOSFETs or the output devices, in the case of a power amp) and carry it to another place - a heat exchanger of some sort, like the heatsink or a radiator.
However, in the end you're always left with the original problem you started with, that is the heat to be dissipated. Actually, I don't know how efficient this pump might be, but in any event it will generate some heat of its own, thus increasing the problem.
I don't think that the different circuit layout that this technology would allow would compensate for the added complexity of the system.
In the end, you're always stuck with the old problem: you either use a large heatsink, or you force the air to flow across an exchanger by means of of a fan (noise and em!).
I'm afraid we're chasing a red herring. The pump is nothing more than a mean for taking heat from one place (the MOSFETs or the output devices, in the case of a power amp) and carry it to another place - a heat exchanger of some sort, like the heatsink or a radiator.
However, in the end you're always left with the original problem you started with, that is the heat to be dissipated. Actually, I don't know how efficient this pump might be, but in any event it will generate some heat of its own, thus increasing the problem.
I don't think that the different circuit layout that this technology would allow would compensate for the added complexity of the system.
In the end, you're always stuck with the old problem: you either use a large heatsink, or you force the air to flow across an exchanger by means of of a fan (noise and em!).
But thats the beauty of water cooling. A heat exchanger like Greys old AC units will likely have 20" x 40" x 2" x 10 fins per inch or 16000 in^2 of cooling surface compaired to a large heatsink having 12" x 20" x 1" x 3 fins per " or 720 in^2. And with water cooling, the pump and fan can be remotely located where the heat dicharge and noise are not an issue.
I just closed on a new house with a listening room upstairs that backs up to the attic and plan to put a car radiator and electric fans in the attic.
I just closed on a new house with a listening room upstairs that backs up to the attic and plan to put a car radiator and electric fans in the attic.
I believe there is a significant detail omitted in this story. I have worked with elektrokinetic water displacement in glass chips. The effect is also known as electrophoresis, used in DNA analysis.
If you apply a high voltage to water inside a microscopic channel (around 10um wide) the water draws to the negative side. Point is: you need high voltages, around 500V per centimeter.
The pump won't introduce any EMI, 'cause we're talking DC here. But using these pumps will need adequate safety precautions. I believe these pumps will find themselves useful in long-life, high reliability and low-noise applications. Not inside my amp.
Bouke
If you apply a high voltage to water inside a microscopic channel (around 10um wide) the water draws to the negative side. Point is: you need high voltages, around 500V per centimeter.
The pump won't introduce any EMI, 'cause we're talking DC here. But using these pumps will need adequate safety precautions. I believe these pumps will find themselves useful in long-life, high reliability and low-noise applications. Not inside my amp.
Bouke
I didn't miss your point...you missed mine.
There's no pump like no pump.
A convection water cooled system would have to have a pretty decent temperature differential for it to cool well, and there are other factors to be dealt with, but there would be no pump, no noise, no EMF, no AC, no DC. Nada. And it would never wear out, nor would it need to be switched on and off.
If it works.
Grey
There's no pump like no pump.
A convection water cooled system would have to have a pretty decent temperature differential for it to cool well, and there are other factors to be dealt with, but there would be no pump, no noise, no EMF, no AC, no DC. Nada. And it would never wear out, nor would it need to be switched on and off.
If it works.
Grey
Bakmeel said:
Here you go, a pump specs, well, not a high flow one.
http://www.eksigent.com/pdf/EKpump_data_sheet.pdf
The first mentioned URL have the first high flow EK pumps & they only need 12v for full blast, however, they have yet to publically post any tech data.
Re: The laws of physics can't be changed...
Heat of it's own? It's a prours piece of glass with an electrode on top & bottom. How does this make heat except for the small amount of friction involved? The darn thing draws a 1-5 ma at most. (The high flow one for PC heatsinks mentioned in the first post.)
Ok, granted, some heat will be made. However, we are not talking aboud a motor with it's coils, drawing half an amp of so, pluss mechanics, plus the separation between motors dry side and the input of the pump.....
m.parigi said:
Heat of it's own? It's a prours piece of glass with an electrode on top & bottom. How does this make heat except for the small amount of friction involved? The darn thing draws a 1-5 ma at most. (The high flow one for PC heatsinks mentioned in the first post.)
Ok, granted, some heat will be made. However, we are not talking aboud a motor with it's coils, drawing half an amp of so, pluss mechanics, plus the separation between motors dry side and the input of the pump.....
Has anybody try this "Aquarius II Liquid Cooling" on their computer or power amps?
http://www.xpcgear.com/theraqiicomw.html
http://www.xpcgear.com/theraqiicomw.html
fcel said:
The Aquarius II is actually a very poor water-cooling system. It provides adequate cooling capacity to keep a CPU dissipating 60-80W around the same temperature as a decent copper Heatsink, 40-50°C. It is a fairly quiet system, but unless you plan on using one for each output device, it would not handle a class-a amp. For that, you would need a much larger radiator, such as a car heater core, and multiple quiet fans running at low voltage.
Free heat exchanger in SE England
I was given a huge heat exchanger (with dual 15" fans) that stands about 5' high, 2' wide and about 10" deep (from a Mitsubishi AC system i think).
I have not gotten around to using it yet and don't see that i will, but it's too good to waste so if anybody out there wants to cool just about anything big and powerful (would easily do a home cinema system based on aleph 2's or maybe 1.2's!!) it's up for grabs.
I'll post this on the trading post as well.
I was given a huge heat exchanger (with dual 15" fans) that stands about 5' high, 2' wide and about 10" deep (from a Mitsubishi AC system i think).
I have not gotten around to using it yet and don't see that i will, but it's too good to waste so if anybody out there wants to cool just about anything big and powerful (would easily do a home cinema system based on aleph 2's or maybe 1.2's!!) it's up for grabs.
I'll post this on the trading post as well.
Mark A. Gulbrandsen said:
Correct, supposidly, Cooligy's E-K pumps are the first to be able to provide such a flow. My additional postings on existing EK pump have stinky performance.
Another thing, since these pumps will be so cheap, small, reliable, & low power, I would expect to use 1 pump / transistor with it's own piping to the external large heatsink.
The easy DC votlage = speed on each pump will also allow for easy temperature regulation on each transistor in such a design.
Mark A. Gulbrandsen said:
You know what, maybe, not the pump, but, make the metal tab / frame of the transistor with a built in liquid channeling with water pipe inlet and outlet. This way, there will be no separated bolted on water heatsink tab thermally bonded with heat sink compound.
I bet it may be possible to do it with a TO3 transistor case & a programmable engraving machine to make some fins, and bolt on a copper faceplate with an entry & exit pipe attachment.
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