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Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps
Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps
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Old 25th December 2016, 08:19 PM   #1
nar is offline nar
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Default Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps

Hello,

My question might be dumb, have searched and found similar title threads but no satisfying answer. So, I ask now

Here in France we have 230V mains. But recently, they changed the power consumption meters on all flats of the building.
Those "communicating" power meters are of a new type, Linky, green smartbox power meter said to "help us reduce of power bills". Huh.

But instead of counting kWh delivered to the client, the new green meter type does count the kVA delivered.
So, all inductive loads as motors, fluocompact bulbs, etc ...
AND, our precious class A amps that use xformers, now are metered higher than they real consuption power, thus adding a little to the bill.
I guess, on typical class A amp, metered consumption could be as high as 10-15% higher than with previous old meters ...

I think a simple way to compensate for Power Factor Correction in our amps would assure the electricity bill to be more exact,
and not paying much more than the precise real power consumption.

So, I ask now, the easy diy way : Is there a way to accurately
1) measure real power consumption of our class A power amps
2) calculate for mains power capacitor, in order to compensate precisely for the loss angle ?
I think this is a part of xformer structure, primary inductance, VA rating and total load on mains,
also in 230V mains xformer primary inductance might be higher than on 110V mains ...

Plus, would there be a negative side to do this ? I mean, in the audio performance,
subjective and measured. The mains here is not pure at all, sine is already distorded ...

Any input, feedback, measures, testimonials ... are welcome, please feel free to tell /share your thoughts / experience here

Kind regards,

nAr
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Old 25th December 2016, 09:01 PM   #2
rayma is offline rayma  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nar View Post
I think a simple way to compensate for Power Factor Correction in our amps would assure the
electricity bill to be more exact,
The input current for most audio amplifiers is nonsinusoidal, in narrow pulses, for the usual capacitor input
rectified power supply. The effective PF can be 0.6 or so. A complex power factor correction circuit
(like in a computer power supply) is necessary to deal with this. It forces the input current waveform
to match the shape of the input voltage waveform, making the power factor 0.98 to 0.99.

Last edited by rayma; 25th December 2016 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 25th December 2016, 09:29 PM   #3
nigelwright7557 is offline nigelwright7557  United Kingdom
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In industry to compensate for inductive motors they put capacitor banks in parallel.
You really need to calculate or measure the PF and put the right capacitor in parallel with your transformer.
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Old 25th December 2016, 10:59 PM   #4
didiet78 is online now didiet78  Indonesia
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Buy or borrow power meter that have pf meter. Measured than try add capacitor until you get pf 0.9 - 1. Or change your xformer with pfc smps
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:47 AM   #5
nar is offline nar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didiet78 View Post
Buy or borrow power meter that have pf meter. Measured than try add capacitor until you get pf 0.9 - 1. Or change your xformer with pfc smps
At least that's what I would try

Can someone link me to a power meter with pf ? Here I can find a AC/DC Volts and Amps with trueRMS ... I thought that measuring one amp consumption alone on the real meter, then checking the value displayed on the Linky, would give a useable differential value ... if nothing else is wired in the flat ...

Regards,

nAr
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Old 27th December 2016, 09:06 AM   #6
didiet78 is online now didiet78  Indonesia
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Old 27th December 2016, 04:25 PM   #7
Nelson Pass is offline Nelson Pass  United States
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Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps
You should find the power factor of FW amps to be about 80%.
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Old 29th December 2016, 07:21 AM   #8
finwbu is online now finwbu  Finland
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Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps
PF of 1 is bad !
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Old 29th December 2016, 07:23 AM   #9
finwbu is online now finwbu  Finland
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Power Factor Correction on Pass/FirstWatt stock/diy power amps
@nigelwright7557 , you will have very high power resonances in the building , cos phi 0,5 inductive. In all High-rise Buildings Elevator using big Machines up to 350kW and Motors are highly inductive so the Compensation Capacitor Banks need to be very close and terminated with proper calculated chokes. If not your Transformer station will be melt or under fire , Supply cables will be melded for sure!
Just using Capacitors is not correct to react the heavy load changes during acceleration or regenerated backwards energy.
Correct is when using Capacitors connect in Delta and controlled by thyristors and that’s the only well working solution.
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Old 29th December 2016, 07:50 AM   #10
nar is offline nar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
You should find the power factor of FW amps to be about 80%.
Hi Nelson, thanks for your answer. So if I understand, I can save up 19% of my "audio power" electricity bill, if compensate the xformers right ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALTER BURKHARD View Post
@nigelwright7557 , you will have very high power resonances in the building , cos phi 0,5 inductive. In all High-rise Buildings Elevator using big Machines up to 350kW and Motors are highly inductive so the Compensation Capacitor Banks need to be very close and terminated with proper calculated chokes. If not your Transformer station will be melt or under fire , Supply cables will be melded for sure!
Just using Capacitors is not correct to react the heavy load changes during acceleration or regenerated backwards energy.
Correct is when using Capacitors connect in Delta and controlled by thyristors and that’s the only well working solution.
Here in our class A amps, with linear power supply and simple toroid, the voltage and current draw are mostly the same once powered up. There seem nothing complex to deal with, such as high rise building elevator complex motor machinery ... Nothing that would justify using additional chokes / thyristors / delta capacitor bank scheme

Regards,

nAr
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