ZEN vs. high capacitance diy speaker cable?

Vix · 2nd March 2004, 08:25 PM

Hi there

As I am building the Zen amp, and waiting for a pair of Fostex 206e to be delivered, I also though about the speaker cable to be used with this configuration. Just yesterday I bought 6m (3+3) gray ribbon cable. However, this cable is said to have a rather high capacitance, and some amps may oscillate. Check out this:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/flatter_e.html

Anyone tried this with Zen? Comments?
Thanks,
Vix

Mad_K · 2nd March 2004, 08:49 PM

As I understand it; Class A amplifiers are quite immune to reactive loads

jam · 3rd March 2004, 03:35 AM

Not so.

Mad_K · 3rd March 2004, 10:10 AM

I was thinking about the Zen/Aleph amps vs speaker cables, but it came out wrong. Sorry Jam

Nelson Pass · 3rd March 2004, 10:31 PM

I haven't run across a case of Zen instability, due to the
extremely low feedback and relatively high output impedance.
As to whether the Zen is ideally suited to any particular cable
or vice versa is open to debate.

blank527 · 3rd March 2004, 10:47 PM

Hi,

I'm an owner of an (not tweaked) aleph 60, and using diyCat5
speakercables.
I found some instability (hum)in my aleph so i'm currently using a zobel network with it.
They are connected to very badly 6 ohm speakers though. (next upgrade)
The strange (for me dissapointing) thing, was connecting these cables to an Hiraga amp, 20Watt version.
There was no instability (no hum) without zobel network. (also other speakers)
I found it strange, as hiraga uses (I think) more feedback, less bias current.
However the power supply has much more (overkill) capacitance, so maybe this is the cause.
Maybe the other cause is the speakers. (sensitivity)
Any explanations?

Regards,
Remco Blankesteijn.

Nelson Pass · 4th March 2004, 08:26 PM

That's interesting. I assume that if you are running the input
single-ended you are also using the shorting jumper 1-3.

What cables andf length are you using?

Vix · 4th March 2004, 10:40 PM

It would be interesting to investigate this matter a bit further. It is a pity to build a good class A amplifier such as ZEN or Aleph, try to minimize sound quality loss with a good cable, but in fact do just the opposite. I know some folks freakin' about the choice of cables. As for me, I know they are not the most important part.(cables) However, I don't want the 'cable" to be the 'bottleneck' of the audio chain. As far I can see, high capacitance cable such is this ribbon risks doing just that. It will be nice to determine when the "improved"start doing more harm than good....

Regards,
Viktor

jam · 5th March 2004, 12:31 AM

Mad K,

To me, Mr.Pass (our Zen Master) wrote the definitive text on speaker cable interaction.

http://passlabs.com/pdf/spkrcabl.pdf

It certainly opened my eyes, when I read it years ago, if you have not read it, you should.

Regards,
Jam

2nd March 2004, 08:25 PM	#1
Vix diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somewhere on Planet Earth	ZEN vs. high capacitance diy speaker cable? Hi there As I am building the Zen amp, and waiting for a pair of Fostex 206e to be delivered, I also though about the speaker cable to be used with this configuration. Just yesterday I bought 6m (3+3) gray ribbon cable. However, this cable is said to have a rather high capacitance, and some amps may oscillate. Check out this: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/flatter_e.html Anyone tried this with Zen? Comments? Thanks, Vix

2nd March 2004, 08:49 PM	#2
Mad_K diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Norway	As I understand it; Class A amplifiers are quite immune to reactive loads __________________ Mads K

3rd March 2004, 10:10 AM	#4
Mad_K diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Norway	I was thinking about the Zen/Aleph amps vs speaker cables, but it came out wrong. Sorry Jam __________________ Mads K

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3rd March 2004, 03:35 AM	#3
jam diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Charlotte,NC,USA	Not so.

3rd March 2004, 10:31 PM	#5
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	I haven't run across a case of Zen instability, due to the extremely low feedback and relatively high output impedance. As to whether the Zen is ideally suited to any particular cable or vice versa is open to debate.

3rd March 2004, 10:47 PM	#6
blank527 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Haarlem	Hi, I'm an owner of an (not tweaked) aleph 60, and using diyCat5 speakercables. I found some instability (hum)in my aleph so i'm currently using a zobel network with it. They are connected to very badly 6 ohm speakers though. (next upgrade) The strange (for me dissapointing) thing, was connecting these cables to an Hiraga amp, 20Watt version. There was no instability (no hum) without zobel network. (also other speakers) I found it strange, as hiraga uses (I think) more feedback, less bias current. However the power supply has much more (overkill) capacitance, so maybe this is the cause. Maybe the other cause is the speakers. (sensitivity) Any explanations? Regards, Remco Blankesteijn.

4th March 2004, 08:26 PM	#7
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	That's interesting. I assume that if you are running the input single-ended you are also using the shorting jumper 1-3. What cables andf length are you using?

4th March 2004, 10:40 PM	#8
Vix diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somewhere on Planet Earth	It would be interesting to investigate this matter a bit further. It is a pity to build a good class A amplifier such as ZEN or Aleph, try to minimize sound quality loss with a good cable, but in fact do just the opposite. I know some folks freakin' about the choice of cables. As for me, I know they are not the most important part.(cables) However, I don't want the 'cable" to be the 'bottleneck' of the audio chain. As far I can see, high capacitance cable such is this ribbon risks doing just that. It will be nice to determine when the "improved"start doing more harm than good.... Regards, Viktor

5th March 2004, 12:31 AM	#9
jam diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Charlotte,NC,USA	Mad K, To me, Mr.Pass (our Zen Master) wrote the definitive text on speaker cable interaction. http://passlabs.com/pdf/spkrcabl.pdf It certainly opened my eyes, when I read it years ago, if you have not read it, you should. Regards, Jam

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