Pass Patent 5,343,166 - Page 2

Nelson Pass · 27th February 2004, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrothacher
Could the Aleph 0 be thought of like a power op amp with a big pull-down resistor? If so, I wonder if this would work with something like ZV5?

For resistor, read big constant current source, and you've got the
Aleph 0. Aleph 0s, also.

It will amuse you to know that the X150.5 amp uses that
approach to provide single-ended bias at lower wattages.

And yes, it will work with ZV5.

"Everything old is new again" (musical note icon)

/pass/: burns electricity, but recycles good ideas.

Nelson Pass · 27th February 2004, 03:39 AM

I forgot to mention, this has nothing to do with the title
of the thread, as 5,343,166 is something else altogether.

5,343,166 is a convolution of the Sano patent. Just as the
"Stasis" patent was created by taking the description of
cascode operation and replacing "current" with "voltage"
and vice versa in its description, , 5,343,166 takes the Sano
patent and again replaces "current" with voltage" and so on.

/pass/: Still waiting for HaloJoy to come back and still looking for
patents that use the words "voltage" and "current"

sianturi · 27th February 2004, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nelson Pass

/pass/: Still waiting for HaloJoy to come back and still looking for
patents that use the words "voltage" and "current"

Hmmh... I wonder, what's the difference between "voltage" and "current"?

Michael Rothacher · 27th February 2004, 12:16 PM

Awesome! Thank you.

P.S. I predict "The Zen Variations" will be the best selling diy audio book in history. It's really fun mixing and matching your concepts. Don't forget to save some surprises for the book! (maybe The Beast With A Million Watts)

Nelson Pass · 27th February 2004, 05:32 PM

I would be surprised if it sold many copies. All the material
is already available for free.

estman · 20th January 2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nelson Pass

For resistor, read big constant current source, and you've got the
Aleph 0. Aleph 0s, also.

It will amuse you to know that the X150.5 amp uses that
approach to provide single-ended bias at lower wattages.

Mr. Pass, thanks for very nice hint !
X150 has 40 output transistors, X150.5 has them only 24. Is is new direction for better sound ? Or 24 is for one channel only and additional 4 transistors are these clever CCS's ?

lumanauw · 21st January 2005, 12:30 AM

Mr. Pass,

I see many attempts from you to built more efficient good sounding amps. This patent is one example, how you try to reduce energy burned out in ordinary classA power amp, while maintaining the sonics of classA. The "Cascode" patent also tries to make good sounding amp with less heat.

In many times in many threads, I found your're saying "raw bias is important". When I asked about the "Smart bias" patent, you said this one more time, that "raw bias" affect sonics more than any biasing scheme. I experimented and found this is true.

Is there really no way to make a good sounding "Cold Amp"?

Nelson Pass · 21st January 2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumanauw
Is there really no way to make a good sounding "Cold Amp"?

I imagine there is. If you post this question in the Chip Amp
forum, you will probably receive an affirmative.

lumanauw · 22nd January 2005, 01:15 AM

Hi, Mr. Pass,

Yes, the chip amp guys will tell that chip amps will compare to your Aleph

But that amp (for me) lack of that "heavy+smooth sound" characteristic, compared to quite biased discrete designs. I think that caused typically by crossover distortion. I've made chip amps, and I found that to make good sounding chipamp, the whole components have tobe expensive ones. This means "expensive cosmetics" are a must for making good sounding chipamp. It also mean the sonic is artificial from the chipamp itself. I think the good amps should be able to sound good even with standard component (that means the design itself is good).

I also think that chip amps have one fundamental shortness that cannot be changed. All components are made of semiconductor, including Resistor and Capacitor. I read that resistors and capacitors are not suitable to be made by semiconductor, and we cannot change that in chipamps.

I begin to wonder, if the transistor's operating temperature is the important thing to sonics. You said "touching the heatsink" is one way to adjust bias, (without knowing what current there is)

What is the cause of "hear-able effect" of transistor's operating temperature (that is not evident in theories)?

lumanauw · 22nd January 2005, 02:03 AM

Some people have "miss-known" Nelson Pass as an "electric bill" audio designer

I see him as trying to achieve the best sonics, and electric bill do not rank above sonics.

Look at his patents and patent dates. Can we say he has no concern with the dissipation of classA?. NP surely knows about efficiency (and really try to reduce not-producing-anything heat), but he don't comprimise in sonics

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27th February 2004, 03:39 AM	#12
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	I forgot to mention, this has nothing to do with the title of the thread, as 5,343,166 is something else altogether. 5,343,166 is a convolution of the Sano patent. Just as the "Stasis" patent was created by taking the description of cascode operation and replacing "current" with "voltage" and vice versa in its description, , 5,343,166 takes the Sano patent and again replaces "current" with voltage" and so on. /pass/: Still waiting for HaloJoy to come back and still looking for patents that use the words "voltage" and "current"

27th February 2004, 12:16 PM	#14
Michael Rothacher www.audiohobby.com diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001 Blog Entries: 3	Awesome! Thank you. P.S. I predict "The Zen Variations" will be the best selling diy audio book in history. It's really fun mixing and matching your concepts. Don't forget to save some surprises for the book! (maybe The Beast With A Million Watts)

27th February 2004, 05:32 PM	#15
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	I would be surprised if it sold many copies. All the material is already available for free.

21st January 2005, 12:30 AM	#17
lumanauw diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bandung	Mr. Pass, I see many attempts from you to built more efficient good sounding amps. This patent is one example, how you try to reduce energy burned out in ordinary classA power amp, while maintaining the sonics of classA. The "Cascode" patent also tries to make good sounding amp with less heat. In many times in many threads, I found your're saying "raw bias is important". When I asked about the "Smart bias" patent, you said this one more time, that "raw bias" affect sonics more than any biasing scheme. I experimented and found this is true. Is there really no way to make a good sounding "Cold Amp"?

22nd January 2005, 01:15 AM	#19
lumanauw diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bandung	Hi, Mr. Pass, Yes, the chip amp guys will tell that chip amps will compare to your Aleph But that amp (for me) lack of that "heavy+smooth sound" characteristic, compared to quite biased discrete designs. I think that caused typically by crossover distortion. I've made chip amps, and I found that to make good sounding chipamp, the whole components have tobe expensive ones. This means "expensive cosmetics" are a must for making good sounding chipamp. It also mean the sonic is artificial from the chipamp itself. I think the good amps should be able to sound good even with standard component (that means the design itself is good). I also think that chip amps have one fundamental shortness that cannot be changed. All components are made of semiconductor, including Resistor and Capacitor. I read that resistors and capacitors are not suitable to be made by semiconductor, and we cannot change that in chipamps. I begin to wonder, if the transistor's operating temperature is the important thing to sonics. You said "touching the heatsink" is one way to adjust bias, (without knowing what current there is) What is the cause of "hear-able effect" of transistor's operating temperature (that is not evident in theories)?

22nd January 2005, 02:03 AM	#20
lumanauw diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bandung	Some people have "miss-known" Nelson Pass as an "electric bill" audio designer I see him as trying to achieve the best sonics, and electric bill do not rank above sonics. Look at his patents and patent dates. Can we say he has no concern with the dissipation of classA?. NP surely knows about efficiency (and really try to reduce not-producing-anything heat), but he don't comprimise in sonics