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Old 29th March 2016, 02:23 PM   #1
jugi63 is offline jugi63  Finland
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Thumbs up Rectifier swapping

Simply said: change out those Vishay block rectifiers(!)

I was not satisfied with my last two First Watt builds... something just wasn't right... they seemd to be more dry and uninvolving than earlier builds.

Then I saw a review and picture of Gamut D200i, which is a some $12000 unit using the same type of rectifier I had on my two first builds. The sound of the Gamut was stated as 'tube like', 'enveloping'. So I though I'd try the older rectifiers in stead of the Vishays I currently had in.

Changed the Vishay rectifiers out and put in DC Component rectifiers in (KBPC3510) ... Woohaa(!).. what a difference... incredible(!) The annoying highs were gone, the soundstage came together much better, was more structured and enveloping, the bass was more devoped and less thumping... simply put, quite a bit more engaging. Also could turn the volume much louder without the sound getting irritating... This same phenomena was valid with two different amps.

Don't know what it is with the Vishays (GBPC3502) ... sounded kind of like they were not letting the current run through freely, so the amps weren't running at their full potential. Go figgure...

It's easy to try. Have a go and tell me if you don't agree...

Last edited by jugi63; 29th March 2016 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:05 PM   #2
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What is the difference in HT voltage with the new diodes?
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:10 PM   #3
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Odd really as they both have 1.1V drop. The 3505 is rated at 50V and the 3510 1kV. All have the same current rating.
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:25 PM   #4
labjr is offline labjr  United States
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What's the difference?
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:31 PM   #5
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Recovery softness factor S=(tb/ta) is not specified on the datasheets of 35 ampere bridge rectifiers, and very likely is not tested. What you do not measure you do not control; perhaps mfr1 and mfr2 happen to accidentally make rectifiers with different recovery softness factors. If so they wouldn't even know it because they don't measure it, because their customers don't demand it.

Not saying this is THE explanation; it is merely one possible explanation. One which happens not to include psychological terminology such as "confirmation bias".

Of course the not-controlled aspect also suggests that different units from the same manufacturer (with different date codes, for example) might easily exhibit very different softness factors, so that two apparently identical units from the same mfr could color the sound differently. Wouldn't that be a tweaker's paradise: testing and sorting bridge rectifiers by ear!

In post#1 it appears that mfr1="Vishay" and mfr2="DC components". The 35A,50V bridge from mfr1 results in a less pleasing amplifier sound than the 35A,1000V bridge from mfr2.

Last edited by Mark Johnson; 29th March 2016 at 03:45 PM. Reason: add a fourth paragraph
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Old 29th March 2016, 04:08 PM   #6
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I thought the Vishay was a type 3502?

The vdrop may be spec'd the same max, but that's not to say they're the same actual.

Supply bridges are typically 2 uSec product. However, the TRR waveform can be all over the place, even within a manu's product line. The range is probably from soft, making 1/4 amp at 500 nSec to 1 ampere out to 1.999 uSec then snapping off in 10 picoseconds..

Seriously, I've seen quite a range on standard stuff like this.

As to vendor to vendor differences, it could be TRR, junction capacitance, BVR of the dice... even die to case capacitance can be quite different due to internal construction geometry...some manu's use discrete leaded diodes internally, some use just the moly/die stack mounted horizontally..

John
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Old 29th March 2016, 04:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
I thought the Vishay was a type 3502?

The vdrop may be spec'd the same max, but that's not to say they're the same actual.

Supply bridges are typically 2 uSec product. However, the TRR waveform can be all over the place, even within a manu's product line. The range is probably from soft, making 1/4 amp at 500 nSec to 1 ampere out to 1.999 uSec then snapping off in 10 picoseconds..

Seriously, I've seen quite a range on standard stuff like this.

As to vendor to vendor differences, it could be TRR, junction capacitance, BVR of the dice... even die to case capacitance can be quite different due to internal construction geometry...some manu's use discrete leaded diodes internally, some use just the moly/die stack mounted horizontally..

John
I've used the 3502 rectifiers in a few builds and noticed no such hardness. I've used others, MURs and so forth, but not a big difference. I will try some of these and see if I note any difference.

Russellc
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Old 29th March 2016, 04:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russellc View Post
I've used the 3502 rectifiers in a few builds and noticed no such hardness. I've used others, MURs and so forth, but not a big difference. I will try some of these and see if I note any difference.

Russellc
Ah, don't get me wrong..I'm not speaking of things that made an audible difference to anything I've done. Just speaking about the differences in the diodes.

If it's anything at all, it's probably in the ground loops..


John
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Old 29th March 2016, 05:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
Ah, don't get me wrong..I'm not speaking of things that made an audible difference to anything I've done. Just speaking about the differences in the diodes.

If it's anything at all, it's probably in the ground loops..


John
Say, I am finding this number in Mouser,even Amazon, but it doesn't appear to be the same manufacturer......does that make a difference? I'll keep looking for DC.

Thanks,

Russellc
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Old 29th March 2016, 06:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russellc View Post
Say, I am finding this number in Mouser,even Amazon, but it doesn't appear to be the same manufacturer......does that make a difference? I'll keep looking for DC.

Thanks,

Russellc
Hi,

I believe the part number itself is somewhat generic and is made by many
manufacturers. (KBPC3510 KBPC package, 35A, 1KV)


Cheers,
Dennis
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