Hi All,
I am new here, i wanted to build a power amp but have some constraints. I have looked at Aleph amps. There are too many circuits so not sure which one to go for.
http://www.kk-pcb.com/amps.html
Anyone who has built amps can please guide me in right direction. I am providing some inputs on what i am looking for and constraints.
Please provide one option each in class A(i have checked some Aleph amps) and Class AB, please share power consumption for each.
I am new here, i wanted to build a power amp but have some constraints. I have looked at Aleph amps. There are too many circuits so not sure which one to go for.
http://www.kk-pcb.com/amps.html
Anyone who has built amps can please guide me in right direction. I am providing some inputs on what i am looking for and constraints.
Please provide one option each in class A(i have checked some Aleph amps) and Class AB, please share power consumption for each.
- I am running surge protection(1440Watts continuous) and 40% is already consumed by other appliances which includes 8Ohm speakers when listening at high volume. Will have more than 60% once i disconnect speakers(8Ohm) from AV receiver and start using power amp.
- Target Class A 80-100Watt, Class AB - 200Watt
- Looking for a circuit fairly simple.
- I can make PCB, work on CAD, solder but my knowledge of electronics is limited. Will benefit if board print is available but not necessary.
- I have 19U rack can support cabinet of Height – 4U or 5U. Can't support huge separate mono blocks, but if mono block circuitry can be put into single unit, that should do just fine.
- Components easily available.
just too much
maybe Aleph X with appropriately high PSU rails, but that's hardly beginner level
If this is your first build and you want Class A, I would recommend trying something simpler like an F5 or maybe an F5 Turbo if you need the power. For context, my F5 was powerful enough for my medium sized room with not particularly sensitive speakers. I built the Aleph X later on, but those were so big and put out so much heat that they become impractical and frankly, I didn't feel there was enough difference in sound quality to justify the downside.
I still have the F5 and have also explored the newish spate of Class D amps from nCore... not what you're interested in, but I mention it as one person's DIY journey.
I still have the F5 and have also explored the newish spate of Class D amps from nCore... not what you're interested in, but I mention it as one person's DIY journey.
80-100 class A is a pretty big project. Perhaps you might first start by
measuring how much power/voltage you are actually using in
your listening:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...much-voltage-power-do-your-speakers-need.html
If you find you can get by with somewhat less power, then many more
choices become available.
Cheers,
Dennis
measuring how much power/voltage you are actually using in
your listening:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...much-voltage-power-do-your-speakers-need.html
If you find you can get by with somewhat less power, then many more
choices become available.
Cheers,
Dennis
Speaker Monitor Audio BX6
Volume = -9.0 db
Voltage measured(220Hz file) at speaker = 9.65V
Volume somewhere around -10db
Voltage measured with my fav music it was fluctuating and max i could see is 15V
If that doesn't require much power that would be great, even though it is very cold here but don't want another heater
. So how much power i really need?Let me know if you require more info.
I am looking for something simple that can help BX6 speakers sound best they can, i have posted some measurements(i usually listen at high volumes).
Do you know of a source where i can find board prints for F5?
As far as i know in audio it matters a lot where you place components, i can do it in CAD but don't understand what components should be kept close enough and which ones not(things like those).
With 90db efficient speakers any of the Firstwatt builds should be enough power for most people in most average size rooms. The F5 suggestion is a good starting point to try first. I do not think you will disappointed and most likely will be pleasantly surprised. I went from thinking I needed at least 100 watts to now using even a SET 1 watt at times.
F5, F5T boards, and power supply boards are available from the DIYAudio Store. Click on the link at the top of the page. Enjoy.
if your speakers are these , F5 Turbo (say 50W upwards) will do the job
though , call me can and geezer , I'm allergic on small bass drivers
anything bellow 10" is not worth considering , except if horn enclosure isn't involved and even then excluding Full Range , where horn is bringing bass just to common 8" bass driver capability
though , call me can and geezer , I'm allergic on small bass drivers
anything bellow 10" is not worth considering , except if horn enclosure isn't involved and even then excluding Full Range , where horn is bringing bass just to common 8" bass driver capability
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I have an F5 and 89db efficient speakers...in a big room. Usual (loud listening) takes about 9V output (not peaks). I feel like the amp is comfortable with this. If you are measuring 15V during loud listening I think you may be wanting something with more power than the F5. At least twice as much power, probably more.
The F5 turbo V2 (50 watts) would be maybe enough...but I think you would still want more power if you are truly using 15V. The F5 turbo V3 has 100 watts but it's not a beginners project. Also, the BA-3 will put out 50 watts with 32V rails.
The bad news is that all of the turbo and BA-3 versions will need a 5U case to dissipate the heat.
On the other hand, you must be listening extremely loud (100+db). Probably louder than those speakers are comfortable with. Can you live with less volume?
If you need those volume levels and are looking for a diy project I would probably look at something class AB or D. It probably won't sound as good but if you truly need 100+ watts and Class A it's going to mean big, hot chassis and a more difficult (and expensive) build.
The F5 turbo V2 (50 watts) would be maybe enough...but I think you would still want more power if you are truly using 15V. The F5 turbo V3 has 100 watts but it's not a beginners project. Also, the BA-3 will put out 50 watts with 32V rails.
The bad news is that all of the turbo and BA-3 versions will need a 5U case to dissipate the heat.
On the other hand, you must be listening extremely loud (100+db). Probably louder than those speakers are comfortable with. Can you live with less volume?
If you need those volume levels and are looking for a diy project I would probably look at something class AB or D. It probably won't sound as good but if you truly need 100+ watts and Class A it's going to mean big, hot chassis and a more difficult (and expensive) build.
First of all thank you everyone who responded starting from first post.
Hikari1 :
15V is peak(not continuous), when listening to my own music it was fluctuating and most of time it was around 9-10V and few times shot up to 15V but for less than a second, i believe amp can take it for very short period?
Also during measurement i was 1db over my high volume levels just to add buffer.
Only reason for Class A DIY is sound
, i can live with 1-2 db less volume if needed. Now i am thinking whether F5 or F5 Turbo.
how hot does your F5 get at loud listening?
What case are you using?
I honestly think it should be the F5 or F6 for your first build. Both are relatively simple first Class A builds with minimum parts. If you get bit by the diy bug you will want to build another anyway. The 4U chassis is good for a either builds. 25 watts is plenty of power for most speakers and listeners. More than 25 watt Class A builds get expensive and more complicated as has already been stated.
Captain Jack,
How did you measure the voltage across the speaker terminals?
Was it with the AC voltage setting on a multimeter or an
oscilloscope?
If you're really getting peak 15V RMS with your loudest music
then as the Mighty Zen Mod has said, you're in the ~30W/8R
range on peak and ~13W/8R most of the time.
I'm a bit confused by the 9.65V(RMS) measurement with the -12dB
test tone. Adjusting for the 1db difference in volume control
would still put you in the ~150W/8R range. Is it possible your
receiver/player or software used to burn the cd has some volume leveling?
(I ran into the problem with windows media by default volume leveled
the signal to close to 0dB instead of the original -12dB)
The test tone was meant to be easy to measure with a multimeter;
real music might be harder.
I guess there's the possibility that your music is recorded at a low
level, but that seems unlikely for commercial music.
I just want to be sure you're not really using hundreds of watts
and end up being disappointed with a low power amplifier.
That out of the way, if you want to use a 4U chassis, need only
50W/8R and don't too much current (since you're using 8R
speakers), have a look at F5T V1 at low-ish bias:
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_f5_turbo.pdf
Cheers,
Dennis
How did you measure the voltage across the speaker terminals?
Was it with the AC voltage setting on a multimeter or an
oscilloscope?
If you're really getting peak 15V RMS with your loudest music
then as the Mighty Zen Mod has said, you're in the ~30W/8R
range on peak and ~13W/8R most of the time.
I'm a bit confused by the 9.65V(RMS) measurement with the -12dB
test tone. Adjusting for the 1db difference in volume control
would still put you in the ~150W/8R range. Is it possible your
receiver/player or software used to burn the cd has some volume leveling?
(I ran into the problem with windows media by default volume leveled
the signal to close to 0dB instead of the original -12dB)
The test tone was meant to be easy to measure with a multimeter;
real music might be harder.
I guess there's the possibility that your music is recorded at a low
level, but that seems unlikely for commercial music.
I just want to be sure you're not really using hundreds of watts
and end up being disappointed with a low power amplifier.
That out of the way, if you want to use a 4U chassis, need only
50W/8R and don't too much current (since you're using 8R
speakers), have a look at F5T V1 at low-ish bias:
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_f5_turbo.pdf
Cheers,
Dennis
Captain Jack,
How did you measure the voltage across the speaker terminals?
Was it with the AC voltage setting on a multimeter or an
oscilloscope?
If you're really getting peak 15V RMS with your loudest music
then as the Mighty Zen Mod has said, you're in the ~30W/8R
range on peak and ~13W/8R most of the time.
I'm a bit confused by the 9.65V(RMS) measurement with the -12dB
test tone. Adjusting for the 1db difference in volume control
would still put you in the ~150W/8R range. Is it possible your
receiver/player or software used to burn the cd has some volume leveling?
(I ran into the problem with windows media by default volume leveled
the signal to close to 0dB instead of the original -12dB)
The test tone was meant to be easy to measure with a multimeter;
real music might be harder.
I guess there's the possibility that your music is recorded at a low
level, but that seems unlikely for commercial music.
I just want to be sure you're not really using hundreds of watts
and end up being disappointed with a low power amplifier.
That out of the way, if you want to use a 4U chassis, need only
50W/8R and don't too much current (since you're using 8R
speakers), have a look at F5T V1 at low-ish bias:
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_f5_turbo.pdf
Cheers,
Dennis
Earlier i was playing files on phone and throwing it to AV receiver, i measured again playing files directly on AV Receiver(files played by AV receiver).
Volume = -6.5db
AC Voltage measured using True RMS multimeter = 7.18V
Volume = -6.5db
AC voltage was fluctuating too fast 7-13 and max i noticed is 13V
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First of all thank you everyone who responded starting from first post.
Hikari1 :
15V is peak(not continuous), when listening to my own music it was fluctuating and most of time it was around 9-10V and few times shot up to 15V but for less than a second, i believe amp can take it for very short period?
Also during measurement i was 1db over my high volume levels just to add buffer.
Only reason for Class A DIY is sound
Now i am thinking whether F5 or F5 Turbo.
how hot does your F5 get at loud listening?
What case are you using?
My F5 is 24v rails but has 2 pairs of mosfets. Bias is around 2.5amps in the 5u case...it gets plenty hot. Around 50 Celsius. Listening level does not effect heat...in fact class a amps theoretically run hotter at idle than when pushed hard. In practice they are just always hot.
Mine is kind of a mix between the f5 and f5t. Same max wattage as f5 but more current and bias.
You ac levels when measured are similar to mine. Iam happy with the volume but I know Iam probably maxing out the wattage. I don't listen super loud...around 85 or 90db at the listening position using my iPhone's db meter.
An f5 would be a good choice to start with...maybe the 32v rail f5 v1 at 50 watts. Bias has a dramatic effect on sound and with a multiway speaker with impedence swings you want as much bias as you can get. This means heat. Which means a big chassis. Biased hot sounds better so if you have concerns about size and heat you may be disappointed, especially with the speakers you are using.
Since each watt matters with Class A,
- heat is a concern, don't want to waste power if i don't need it, until i get solar panels.
- Size hmm would have loved 4U, can accommodate 5U as well.
first i am going to build F5(25W) and use hardware that will also work with F5T in case need arises.
Starting a new thread for parts.
- heat is a concern, don't want to waste power if i don't need it, until i get solar panels.
- Size hmm would have loved 4U, can accommodate 5U as well.
first i am going to build F5(25W) and use hardware that will also work with F5T in case need arises.
Starting a new thread for parts.
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