The reason I ask is because I live in a house built in 1957. All I have are 2 prong outlets. All of my equipment runs through power strips using 3 prong adapters.
Now that I've read a number of the owners manuals written by NP wherein he states,
"Grounding: Adequate precautions should be taken so that the grounding provisions built into an electrical product are never defeated."
I'm getting ready to assemble my B1, and for the first time ever I'm kind of paranoid to float the ground. Any thoughts?
Now that I've read a number of the owners manuals written by NP wherein he states,
"Grounding: Adequate precautions should be taken so that the grounding provisions built into an electrical product are never defeated."
I'm getting ready to assemble my B1, and for the first time ever I'm kind of paranoid to float the ground. Any thoughts?
I've done it, don't like it. In the Live Music arena most bass amps have a ground lift switch, some other gear has it.
(quite a few old tube and solid state amps even let you switch polarity and shock people hard)
Get one of those 3 LED outlet testers and a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter and test your outlets.
I just bought a house built in 1950 and I replaced all of the 2 prong outlets with 3 prong outlets. (discovered they used 14 gauge and even some 16 gauge wiring
)
All of the outlets were wired properly and all but 2 of the electrical boxes had a proper ground. (naturally the 2 I want to use for my stereo system)
(quite a few old tube and solid state amps even let you switch polarity and shock people hard)
Get one of those 3 LED outlet testers and a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter and test your outlets.
I just bought a house built in 1950 and I replaced all of the 2 prong outlets with 3 prong outlets. (discovered they used 14 gauge and even some 16 gauge wiring
)All of the outlets were wired properly and all but 2 of the electrical boxes had a proper ground. (naturally the 2 I want to use for my stereo system)
Now I feel kind of dumb for using the B1 as my example since I plan to use a wall wart to power it. But I'm thinking ahead to when I decide between an Aleph J or a F6 which will need grounding.
When we bought our house I had hoped to upgrade the 2 prong outlets to 3 prong outlets. However, when I investigated further I found the electrical boxes were masonite nailed to wood studs and no ground wire or conduit to ground to. Not wanting to rip out the sheet rock and rewire the whole house, I've used the 3 prong adapters for all of my modern electronics ever since.
So, I guess I'm wondering if manufacturers advise against defeating grounding mainly as a liability issue or if there are real safety issues I should worry about.
But I'm thinking ahead to when I decide between an Aleph J or a F6 which will need grounding.When we bought our house I had hoped to upgrade the 2 prong outlets to 3 prong outlets. However, when I investigated further I found the electrical boxes were masonite nailed to wood studs and no ground wire or conduit to ground to. Not wanting to rip out the sheet rock and rewire the whole house, I've used the 3 prong adapters for all of my modern electronics ever since.
So, I guess I'm wondering if manufacturers advise against defeating grounding mainly as a liability issue or if there are real safety issues I should worry about.
uhh no,
but you don't have any in your place so its impossible to defeat what you don't have.
BTW most consumer audio / video gear is class II E.g. 2 wire rated.
you still have AC polarity tho> Hot and Neutral, I reckon the Neutral side is ground based at the fuse box.
if I were you I would review the panel fuse amps to the smallest wire gauge hooked into it>
shock is one thing but fire from overheating wires is another
strange your house without ground is typical to 1940's not mid 50's
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It is never okay to intentionally defeat equipment safety grounds. In your case you aren't doing that since the electeical service to your house does not provide safety ground. However, the potential for shock hazard from your equipment does remain due to the lack of available safety ground house wiring. Fortunately, there is an inexpensive yet effective solution.
If your house is older and so was not constructed with three wire electrical service, code typically allows for the installation of 2-prong style Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) outlets. These devices fit in place of the existing outlets, and monitor whether the same amount of current flowing out one outlet prong is returning on the other outlet prong. Should the current flows be unequal it will because some current has found an alternative path as a fault condition, possibly through a human body. The current imbalance will trip the outlet's built-in circuit breaker, deactivating the outlet until it is manually reset. A rather ingenious device.
If your house is older and so was not constructed with three wire electrical service, code typically allows for the installation of 2-prong style Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) outlets. These devices fit in place of the existing outlets, and monitor whether the same amount of current flowing out one outlet prong is returning on the other outlet prong. Should the current flows be unequal it will because some current has found an alternative path as a fault condition, possibly through a human body. The current imbalance will trip the outlet's built-in circuit breaker, deactivating the outlet until it is manually reset. A rather ingenious device.
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knob and tube?
aren't the outlet boxes grounded?
by the 1930's BX armored cable became standard in the US, steel armor connects to safety ground
here the common 2pin-to-3 plug adapter has a safety ground tab or wire that fits under the cover screw to connect to safety ground with normal 2 pin outlets
aren't the outlet boxes grounded?
by the 1930's BX armored cable became standard in the US, steel armor connects to safety ground
here the common 2pin-to-3 plug adapter has a safety ground tab or wire that fits under the cover screw to connect to safety ground with normal 2 pin outlets
jcx - What became standard where varies from region to region. In my area (SF Bay Area), knob & tube was used well into the 50's and NMC (cloth-braided and then plastic sheathed) became the "standard" after that. The early cloth braided NMC was also ungrounded. BX was not widely adopted in our area. I'm a home inspector and this is based on 2,000+ inspections throughout the Bay Area.
The normal "ground lift" switch is an AUDIO ground lift switch. It should NEVER be a breaking of the PE to Chassis SAFETY connection.
One MUST NEVER break the Safety connection, PE to Chassis !!!!!!!
Except in Oakland, where it was required in basements and crawlspaces because of (I was told by and inspector) rats. Meanwhile, right across the line in Berkeley it was prohibited (in basements and crawlspaces) because of (I was told by an inspector) corrosion. Both in the mid-late 60's.
In any case getting a ground wire to existing outlet and switch boxes was an expensive nightmare (and often required to get an "improvement" permit anywhere in the building). I rather liked the simplicity of knob and tube in single story applications . . . hot in the attic, neutral in the crawl, running splices (soldered) and single wire pretty much everywhere. Relatively easy to retrofit a ground on those, too . . . (not so nice the switched neutral sometimes found on ceiling fixtures . . . don't know if that was ever "legal" but it was done).
Well, fortunately I've only done a handful of inspections in Oakland.
Incidentally to the OP, a grounded outlet may be helpful or even necessary in taming hum in some audio equipment. And other electronic equipment may need the ground to handle stray voltage or other esoteric stuff I'm unfamiliar with. Andrew T may have more insight on this.
If your house has a crawl space (rather than a slab or finished basement) then running ground wires to your outlets (or to just the outlet for your audio equipment) may not be that difficult.
Incidentally to the OP, a grounded outlet may be helpful or even necessary in taming hum in some audio equipment. And other electronic equipment may need the ground to handle stray voltage or other esoteric stuff I'm unfamiliar with. Andrew T may have more insight on this.
If your house has a crawl space (rather than a slab or finished basement) then running ground wires to your outlets (or to just the outlet for your audio equipment) may not be that difficult.
it's usually the other way round, a problem more likely to occur when folks introduce a new grounded DIY thingy into a commercial 2 wire audio system.
all pro boxes ok
I'm surprised this coming from a home inspector. recommending DIY starting down this road in such an off handed way without pro guidance could lead to all kinds of issues when comes a time to sell. job security, don't kill the deal? IMO incompletely done to non code raises red flags, to do it right would usually means a replaced breaker box and all that that entails ( city codes ) its not kosher to use cold water pipes to carry multiple fault currents, a single point to the panel is code
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Should have added, "Consult with a qualified electrician".
I did not say anything about grounding to pipes. Running ground wires to the point of origination of the circuit is permitted. You're right, there are potential complications, and any electrical work should be done by or under the guidance of a qualified individual, but properly grounding an ungrounded circuit is, in many if not most cases, achievable without too much drama. It's preferable to defeating the grounding, which is what the OP was asking about.
I did not say anything about grounding to pipes. Running ground wires to the point of origination of the circuit is permitted. You're right, there are potential complications, and any electrical work should be done by or under the guidance of a qualified individual, but properly grounding an ungrounded circuit is, in many if not most cases, achievable without too much drama. It's preferable to defeating the grounding, which is what the OP was asking about.
I am. I did find an interesting link explaining why.
Seems 14 guage can handle 20 amps if it is 1 wire, most of my breakers are 15 amps and we switched to LED lighting. I'll run new wires and boxes to the power hungry stuff like the refrigerator, microwave and stereo.
Wire Gauges - Current Ratings <interesting
UL General-Use Circuit Ampacity Reference Chart <safer but still more amps then what we were taught, lamp cord has how many wires??
Seems 14 guage can handle 20 amps if it is 1 wire, most of my breakers are 15 amps and we switched to LED lighting. I'll run new wires and boxes to the power hungry stuff like the refrigerator, microwave and stereo.
Wire Gauges - Current Ratings <interesting
UL General-Use Circuit Ampacity Reference Chart <safer but still more amps then what we were taught, lamp cord has how many wires??
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