Which means what ?
These geriatric drivers Still work exceptionally well. Better than most.
Old doesn't necessarily mean dead
Congrats mr Zen If it pleases that's all that matters.. really.
Getting one to sound/react 'similar' let alone 'better' is an accomplishment in itself.
Others have not been nearly so fortunate with their work.
There is nothing high quality about the Tannoy autoformers atleast from the Gold crossover units. They are not clamped well and are taped with adhesive plaster. The E and I core is not alternately arranged and just bunched with all Es on one side and Is on the other side. I have measured quite a few of them and the variance is quite high. I got exact replicas of the autoformers built with same core, wire and turns spec. They also measure well. Work in progress on the crossover build.
You should contact Dave Slagle/INTACT AUDIO for a tapped inductor. I would recommend NOT using an air core. You are lucky NORTH CREEK is not doing this since their coils were a mess. I bought a pair. They were not of the correct value, their ESR was MUCH higher than they claimed. They are expensive JUNK sitting on a shelf.
Dave sold me a pair of chokes with an adjustable gap so I can get the value of Henrys I want (Since Henry is a name one would not make it plural with "ies" would you?)
In my experience air core chokes do not work well with horns. Too much ESR no matter what you do. Gives a very uneven response.
I have been using a bung of wool in the throat of my 100 to 500 hz horns and though it works I have never mentioned it since I thought it would get the "scientific" DIYAudio treatment! You have to be really careful here with all of the scientists here!!! You know the engineers who think they are scientists.
Now that I read that Mr. Pass does something similar I have been freed! Thanks!
Dave sold me a pair of chokes with an adjustable gap so I can get the value of Henrys I want (Since Henry is a name one would not make it plural with "ies" would you?)
In my experience air core chokes do not work well with horns. Too much ESR no matter what you do. Gives a very uneven response.
I have been using a bung of wool in the throat of my 100 to 500 hz horns and though it works I have never mentioned it since I thought it would get the "scientific" DIYAudio treatment! You have to be really careful here with all of the scientists here!!! You know the engineers who think they are scientists.
Now that I read that Mr. Pass does something similar I have been freed! Thanks!
I take the philosophy that we use what works, and we try anything we like.
After all, this is entertainment, not dialysis.
I don't currently have anything stuffing the bung-hole of my Tannoy high
frequency horns, but I am tempted since I installed a pair that did not have
dust caps and they now run a little hotter.
I do use some light stuffing with fiberglass on the horn throats of the bass
enclosures, which did a nice job of taking down the 30 to 60 Hz bass of the
rear loaded horn, and tightened it up a bit. Any more and it loses some life.
I will try Dave Sladge thanks for that, I take it that this part of the factory crossover is both important as to its function as well as a weak point due to the original part itself and to simply remove it with a set coil deviates from what is going on (specifically with the value of the 50ohm resister).
As to:
I take the philosophy that we use what works, and we try anything we like.
Unfortunately for me my philosophy works more like
"try try again until I finally get it right"
Imagine my surprise when I realized after I had these Imperials in my listening room with the drivers in that the access holes in the horn throat were just that and needed to be covered (for that matter didn't need to be cut in at all as I flush mounted my drivers)
As to:
I take the philosophy that we use what works, and we try anything we like.
Unfortunately for me my philosophy works more like
"try try again until I finally get it right"
Imagine my surprise when I realized after I had these Imperials in my listening room with the drivers in that the access holes in the horn throat were just that and needed to be covered (for that matter didn't need to be cut in at all as I flush mounted my drivers)
I to don't have dust caps (after re-cone) and found that the hf seemed exactly that a little hotter, being unsure if this was a perceived difference I decided to listen with the uninstalled dust caps on my ears. Between this event and the sheer size of the jensens my wife thinks I'm a few screws loose...
in this case , where autoformer is used to lift few db for Pepperpots , my experience is that air-core autoformers ( so , no just chokes) are pretty well working
yup , mine are DIY , but in this age I'm lazy and sloppy winder
so , even mine are better than beancounter lazy and sloppy Tannoy original ones
Ahhh.. therein lies the price of deleting the Multiple Tap autoformer.. or at least not utilising those taps.. minor adjustability to needs/tastes.
Or the removal of dustcaps
Substitute the wee thread bobbin .820 mH Tweeter coil, thereby reducing it's esr and one gets to glimpse the true freq extension capabilities of that HF compression driver.
Unpleasant/fatiguing (imo) but it presents itself as a dramatically capable HF gizmo.
PS Over the decades I've fooled (honest operative word there) with The Tannoy coils Yes even foolishly winding my own. IMO it was in general a waste of effort.
Only proving to myself that I was incapable of hearing a difference.
However doing so amused me for a few years
Active/line level crossovers are better experiment area IMO.
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luckily, in Papaland even engineers are pretty relaxed ...... making life to us non-engineers easier
Our beloved Mr. Pass is an engineer AND a scientist in my opinion since he is not hamstrung by textbooks and "what has come before". Of course, he relies on the work of the past but strives to take it to the next step. Most current example is his exploration of the SCHADE feedback scheme.
I get annoyed at folks who think they are scientific while telling folks here to not do anything that hasn't been done a thousand times before.
You know the folks I am speaking of. The folks that post on threads they have absolutely no interest in, about gear they have no knowledge of with comments you do not have to read to know what will be written.
Along with that this "protector of the innocent conceit". It has become a bit of a plague here. When you call them on this they inevitably go one about how scientific they are since they are EEs. I tell them an engineer uses science he does not "do" science and I am told I am an idiot. Kind of like the "takes one to know one" syndrome?
I ask them: if one should just do what has been done then all of this is reduced to a simple recipe book. Why bother trying anything? Of course, their "science" is a simple recipe book. All that needs to be known is known. You just can't get more scientific than that!
Audio and forums are great forms of amusement, no question. But there can still be serious inquiry into the unknown since how we perceive sounds/music is for all intents and purposes full of mystery.
Audio will retain its "artistic" aspects until all of this is settled and that, I feel confident, will never happen.
This concludes my rant for the day.
Take care,
PS I am speaking of inductors for cone woofers horn loaded. I think I have tried every air core I could afford. The DUELUNDs are beyond my ability to pay, maybe they do not bring on the uneven response I hear with every air core I have tried. Must admit I never tried paralleling them but then that would get really expensive. The coil i got from Dave is close to the limit of my multimeter's ability to measure. I am not capable of measuring at other frequencies.
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Jeez, Ive been around diyaudio for some time albeit quite, it sure doesnt seem the same as it used to be. I started this thread looking for info and really appreciate Mr Pass sharing such. I also appreciate and learn from members experience and knowledge that is shared to help people like me learn, and in turn I can reciprocate this. It's what keeps me coming back, helping each other out with the common denominator "audio" with a touch of humour and the odd antic here and there to keep a smile on everyone's face. I'm not looking to perpetuate anything with this, maybe im overly sensitive this am. Good day every one
That's OK. This forum runs a minimum of crankiness, and that's why I like
it here. Nice little sandbox.
WRT the Tannoys, it's my experience that the air-core transformers are
pretty good for high frequency work, and they do have the advantage of
keeping a lower source impedance for the horn drivers as well as lower
distortion.
The coaxials are a little brighter without the dustcaps, and on one level that
is a slight annoyance, although you can get used to it. It's very source
material dependent. On the plus side, it seems to offer a little more detail.
Our use of the Tannoys is different than most people's. We use them for
evaluating amplifiers, and as Joe Sammut (who put these things together)
used to say, "They aren't the best sounding speakers, they are speakers
that resolve the differences between amplifiers."
If I had them upstairs in the living space, I probably would put dust caps
on them.
I might anyway...
it here. Nice little sandbox.
WRT the Tannoys, it's my experience that the air-core transformers are
pretty good for high frequency work, and they do have the advantage of
keeping a lower source impedance for the horn drivers as well as lower
distortion.
The coaxials are a little brighter without the dustcaps, and on one level that
is a slight annoyance, although you can get used to it. It's very source
material dependent. On the plus side, it seems to offer a little more detail.
Our use of the Tannoys is different than most people's. We use them for
evaluating amplifiers, and as Joe Sammut (who put these things together)
used to say, "They aren't the best sounding speakers, they are speakers
that resolve the differences between amplifiers."
If I had them upstairs in the living space, I probably would put dust caps
on them.
I might anyway...
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