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Old 29th January 2004, 09:43 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lars Clausen

In other words (according to my claim anyway) the amplifier not only sees how many Volts come out of your power supply, it 'looks inside' the power supply. Every aspect of the power supply may have an effect on the sound. Even if no difference can be seen in Volatge, Amperage, Impedance or Ripple.
Some people like to look inside their amplifiers. For them, everything may have an effect on the sound, even if no difference can be seen in the signal coming out of it.

This is perfectly true, and I'm not taking the p*ss (much). I'm just not one of those people.

Cheers
IH
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Old 29th January 2004, 08:30 PM   #102
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Default Whoppling???haven't seen it.

Don't think it's real...

Cheers, John
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Old 30th January 2004, 04:12 AM   #103
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Sometimes doing something like Lars suggests will not be measurable but still have an effect on the sound.
This has been shown time and time again in amplifier design so why dismiss it?

Its not like he is here spruiking for one of his products.

Going back through much of the discussion in this forum it seems people are just willing to shadow NP's opinion instead of thinking and trying things for themselves.
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Old 30th January 2004, 06:02 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agisthos
Sometimes doing something like Lars suggests will not be measurable but still have an effect on the sound.
This has been shown time and time again in amplifier design so why dismiss it?[snip].
Has it been shown? Really? I think you will be hard pressed to come up with something more than just stories and unsubstantiated claimes.

Jan Didden
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Old 30th January 2004, 06:04 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agisthos
[snip]Going back through much of the discussion in this forum it seems people are just willing to shadow NP's opinion instead of thinking and trying things for themselves.

I think you have it the wrong way around. If you read the posts, it is clear that the OTHERS have done the thinking, not Lars. He just parrots what some cap salesman told him.

Jan Didden
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Old 30th January 2004, 06:44 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by janneman



I think you have it the wrong way around. If you read the posts, it is clear that the OTHERS have done the thinking, not Lars. He just parrots what some cap salesman told him.

Jan Didden
Actually Lars says he did a listening test and it made a difference, so it must mean he has actually built/put into practice his idea

which is quite different to the people who try to prove that it does not work with their theoretical analysis.
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Old 30th January 2004, 06:52 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by janneman


Has it been shown? Really? I think you will be hard pressed to come up with something more than just stories and unsubstantiated claimes.

Jan Didden
There are occasions when a poorer measuring amp sounds better than a good measuring one.
So prehaps the current methods of measurements are just a useful guide but do not tell the entire story?
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Old 30th January 2004, 07:11 AM   #108
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It seems the argumentum goes round and round and not really exploring all the possible aspects that could influence the final result.

First of all if I understand correctly Lars redesigned the PS of his amp and got positive end result in sound. In such matter any designer I think will search in his mind the explanation what changed it for the better. So he had this theory that he knew and took it as an answer. Well ok, but we do not exactly know how many and exactly what changes he did. Did he just add 0.1 resistors going in and out of each cap? Which type of cap is the first one shown on the schematic (the one Lars posted) right after the rectifier. Was it there before also? So basically the question is weather he had an RC filtering in the first place or did he add the R part to the equation and that improved the sound.

The next thing in my opinion is that we have to also look at the rectifier bridge. If there are any resonance's forming in these caps, then most likely the bridge is the one giving these resonance's the energy to liven them up in the first place. Diodes with their switching behaviour are anyway known to be a bad thing So maybe the resistors help in this regards not current sharing?

The third that I don't see mentioned here is a positive effect of inserting series resistors before the bridge. I mean between the transformer secondary and the bridge. This seems also to do a lot of good to sound and I have myself proven it (to myself) on many occasions. This effect is also something that is not so easy to verify with measurements, but it changes the sound.

And last point is that can it not be that the physical layout of the supply (and complete amp also) influences how much Lars's changes influence the sound. Some of us have longer supply wires/traces some shorter and so on. So the effect might not come out as strong in all cases.

Ergo
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Old 30th January 2004, 08:50 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agisthos

This has been shown time and time again in amplifier design so why dismiss it?
That, sir, is a troll.

Cheers
IH

PS http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/t/troll.html]troll.
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Old 30th January 2004, 09:14 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agisthos


Actually Lars says he did a listening test and it made a difference, so it must mean he has actually built/put into practice his idea

which is quite different to the people who try to prove that it does not work with their theoretical analysis.
The problem I have with that is that the theoritical analysis can be repeated, and can be agreed to be right or wrong by reasonable objective means. For instance, theoretical analysis can easily show that the current whoppling story just is incorrect. That analysis is not open to subjective "believe".

On the other hand, if someone who has a vested interest in certain things tells it really works because he heard it himself, that's just one man's personal opinion, and with a vested interest.

I think I will keep my healthy scepticism.

Jan Didden
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